If agreement votes aren’t going to be used, why not do away with them altogether and just use the current system to vote based on quality only? True comments are higher quality than false comments so agreement should factor into quality judgments anyway.
If agreement votes aren’t going to be used, why not do away with them altogether and just use the current system to vote based on quality only?
I like Jess’s proposal because I think it has a better chance of working in practice. Most of us, I think, do want to express agreement / disagreement, and I think separating it out into a separate vote would work better with real humans’ cognitive systems than relying on people following an explicit instruction to ignore one of their motivations. [Yes, I would like to see a study testing this assumption somehow, but in the meantime, that’s the prediction my subjective probability is going into...]
Besides, I would find the agree/disagree info interesting. And I think it probably reduces “me too” posts. And the info presumably could be used for the “most controversial” page.
(edited: s/separate out their motivations/ignore one of their motivations/)
I think other people have said it, but Slashdot has one of the best commenting structures around.
Different values for different categories (funny, insightful etc....), anonymous posting, reputation, very clear thread structure. All sorts of fun stuff
Because quality and truth are separate judgments in practice, and forcing them to be conflated into a single scale is losing information. To the extent that truth is positively correlated with quality this will fall out automatically: highly truthy posts will tend to have high quality. Low quality and high truth are not opposites.
I agree it’s losing information, but that’s something you have to weigh against the inconvenience of multiple dimensions. To the extent that truth is positively correlated with quality you’re just making people click twice, and I suspect clicks are a limited resource.
As I see it the voting system is there to put comments in a convenient order and remove the really bad ones from sight, not to provide opinion poll information.
That’s exactly the point: voting is supposed to put comments in order according to quality, so that you can read the worthwhile comments in a reasonable time. My claim is that the current voting system will not do this well at all and that a dual voting system will be better. (That second bit is just a guess). The opinion poll information is just a nice side effect.
OK, so according to you and Benja the point is to have the agree/disagree buttons there mainly as a lightning rod to prevent agreement from affecting quality votes. That’s a good point, but I wonder if it’s worth it and if there are better ways to accomplish the same thing.
I also wonder if there should be a button labeled “malevolent cantaloupe” so the unserious people will click on that instead of voting.
This makes… quite a lot of sense, actually. And of course the posts would be sorted by quality votes, not agreement votes.
If agreement votes aren’t going to be used, why not do away with them altogether and just use the current system to vote based on quality only? True comments are higher quality than false comments so agreement should factor into quality judgments anyway.
I like Jess’s proposal because I think it has a better chance of working in practice. Most of us, I think, do want to express agreement / disagreement, and I think separating it out into a separate vote would work better with real humans’ cognitive systems than relying on people following an explicit instruction to ignore one of their motivations. [Yes, I would like to see a study testing this assumption somehow, but in the meantime, that’s the prediction my subjective probability is going into...]
Besides, I would find the agree/disagree info interesting. And I think it probably reduces “me too” posts. And the info presumably could be used for the “most controversial” page.
(edited: s/separate out their motivations/ignore one of their motivations/)
I think other people have said it, but Slashdot has one of the best commenting structures around.
Different values for different categories (funny, insightful etc....), anonymous posting, reputation, very clear thread structure. All sorts of fun stuff
Because quality and truth are separate judgments in practice, and forcing them to be conflated into a single scale is losing information. To the extent that truth is positively correlated with quality this will fall out automatically: highly truthy posts will tend to have high quality. Low quality and high truth are not opposites.
I agree it’s losing information, but that’s something you have to weigh against the inconvenience of multiple dimensions. To the extent that truth is positively correlated with quality you’re just making people click twice, and I suspect clicks are a limited resource.
As I see it the voting system is there to put comments in a convenient order and remove the really bad ones from sight, not to provide opinion poll information.
That’s exactly the point: voting is supposed to put comments in order according to quality, so that you can read the worthwhile comments in a reasonable time. My claim is that the current voting system will not do this well at all and that a dual voting system will be better. (That second bit is just a guess). The opinion poll information is just a nice side effect.
OK, so according to you and Benja the point is to have the agree/disagree buttons there mainly as a lightning rod to prevent agreement from affecting quality votes. That’s a good point, but I wonder if it’s worth it and if there are better ways to accomplish the same thing.
I also wonder if there should be a button labeled “malevolent cantaloupe” so the unserious people will click on that instead of voting.