Agree and my own reaction took this a step further—I was glad to hear that JoeW, as someone who seems to affiliate with people politically opposed to PUA, got the impression that the PUA community felt no obligation to engage or respond. I would have thought less of the community if it did.
PUAs are not political activists. They are people who enjoy, practice and develop a specific set of skills with a specific purpose. Their comparative advantage really isn’t in engaging in moral and political debate to convince others that they deserve respect, acceptance or special treatment. Moreover acting as if you need to justify yourself (or your group) to others already represents a significant loss of standing. That is one aspect of politics in general that PUAs should be expected to be familiar with, since it overlaps so much with the rules of the social game that they are dedicated to mastering.
(This is different from simply explaining their own personal ethical values completely divorced from any reference to external critics and in terms of conveying information rather than giving excuse. That is something that PUA-instructor types seem to enjoy doing.)
Moreover acting as if you need to justify yourself (or your group) to others already represents a significant loss of standing.
[boggled] Isn’t that what we’re all doing here at LW? Arguing and justifying our arguments? Did you just lower your standing with your justification? At time of writing I see quite the reverse.
Moreover acting as if you need to justify yourself (or your group) to others already represents a significant loss of standing.
boggled] Isn’t that what we’re all doing here at LW? Arguing and justifying our arguments? Did you just lower your standing with your justification? At time of writing I see quite the reverse.
LW is a freakishly abnormal social setting, even for internet fora. Most people here care more about figuring out what’s true than winning arguments. This is unique in my experience of the internet. “facts” are not the primary use case for language., social politics are.
If someone justifies their request for me to justify my personal choices, I may do so. However, generally speaking, justifying one’s choices is a super low-status move and requesting (or, more frequently, demanding) justification is a high-status move.
Justification of belief, although having status connotations, can usually be treated differently.
Agree and my own reaction took this a step further—I was glad to hear that JoeW, as someone who seems to affiliate with people politically opposed to PUA, got the impression that the PUA community felt no obligation to engage or respond. I would have thought less of the community if it did.
PUAs are not political activists. They are people who enjoy, practice and develop a specific set of skills with a specific purpose. Their comparative advantage really isn’t in engaging in moral and political debate to convince others that they deserve respect, acceptance or special treatment. Moreover acting as if you need to justify yourself (or your group) to others already represents a significant loss of standing. That is one aspect of politics in general that PUAs should be expected to be familiar with, since it overlaps so much with the rules of the social game that they are dedicated to mastering.
(This is different from simply explaining their own personal ethical values completely divorced from any reference to external critics and in terms of conveying information rather than giving excuse. That is something that PUA-instructor types seem to enjoy doing.)
[boggled] Isn’t that what we’re all doing here at LW? Arguing and justifying our arguments? Did you just lower your standing with your justification? At time of writing I see quite the reverse.
LW is a freakishly abnormal social setting, even for internet fora. Most people here care more about figuring out what’s true than winning arguments. This is unique in my experience of the internet. “facts” are not the primary use case for language., social politics are.
Good points, thank you.
If someone justifies their request for me to justify my personal choices, I may do so. However, generally speaking, justifying one’s choices is a super low-status move and requesting (or, more frequently, demanding) justification is a high-status move.
Justification of belief, although having status connotations, can usually be treated differently.
I wish I’d graduated from the Cooperative Conspiracy before attempting these arguments. :)
Yes, I see what you say and agree. Updating.