If it did turn out to be that I’d be annoyed since a) old Harry time traveling back has been done before and b) it would be such a stretch from the standard plot that making it turn out that way would strike me as too far removed from the original.
Ah, but how does he kill Voldemort? Your scenario doesn’t provide any power-up to go from irrational prisoner in Azkaban to Dark Lord-killer.
I suggest that before that, Harry remembers Quirrel’s story about the Chamber of Secrets, and regretfully kills the basilisk as well (to keep the time-loop stable). Indeed, a time-loop might explain how Quirrel found about it in the first place—the search procedure was simply to systematically investigate every old legend, and the Chamber was simply the one that panned out.
It depends how far back in time he is sent. He might have plenty of time to power up. Being fairly dead inside he might’ve got close to Voldemort and learnt his secrets, pretending to be an ally and then betrayed him.
I don’t endorse the future-Harry theory at all, but that said, I do think this would be a principled extrapolation… that is, it wouldn’t come out of nowhere, narratively.
We’ve already seen Harry experiment with time (and be warned not to). And we’ve seen, during Harry’s experiments with transmutation, that previously binding constraints on magic can be overcome by adopting a different model of what the magic is doing (1).
I’m no more an expert on the nature of time than I am on the nature of matter, but on the face of it a constraint like “6h/24h” seems as arbitrary as “whole objects only” (2).
So it stands to reason that a similar exercise of using a more accurate model of time could cause that constraint to evaporate (3), allowing Harry to develop an improved Time Turner with no practical upper limit on temporal range.
All of that said, Fermi’s Paradox as applied to time travel is a real problem. OTOH, if we’re willing to believe that “muggles” don’t notice the existence of wizards, I guess it’s not implausible that temporal natives don’t notice the existence of temporal tourists.
(1) One explanation is that by adopting a more accurate model of the manipulation being performed, one can discard constraints that were only ever consequences of the inaccuracies in one’s earlier model. (This seems the most likely explanation, given the author’s philosophical sensibilities.)
(2) Perhaps more, actually. There is a difference between how a cluster of iron atoms interacts with the other iron atoms in a chunk of iron, and how it interacts with the surrounding atmosphere, and that difference could fundamentally affect how transmutation works. It doesn’t in the MORverse, it seems, but it could have. Whereas I can’t think of any meaningful difference between a 6-hour displacement in time (“distimement”?) and a N-hour displacement for any N that is not a significant fraction of the age of the universe.
(3) That said, Harry would be well advised to take far more precautions than are currently available to him before experimenting. It may be that the 6-hour limit is actually a safety factor derived from the maximum distance over which the Turner can adjust the user’s spatial coordinates to keep them on the surface of the Earth, for example.
Then again, the same could be said of experimenting with transmutation… at the very least, understanding where the extra energy goes seems like a good safety precaution.
Then again again, I guess that sort of attitude is why I’m not a protagonist in heroic fiction.
Guvf nyfb rkcynvaf jul gur Qrzragbef unir n orrs jvgu Dhveery, ur unf gur znex bs fbzrbar jub rfpncrq Nmxnona.
I believe that the Dementors have a beef with Quirrell because (rot13) gur Qrzragbef ner Qrngu vapneangr naq Dhveeryy qrsvrq qrngu ol perngvat n ubepehk, abg gb zragvba qlvat naq abg fgnlvat qrnq. Gurl jnag gur cevmr gung’f orra qravrq gurz.
Reading some wikis tell me that Dementors didn’t have a problem with Voldy in canon, and that condition applies there. So either that is a deviation from canon, due to a change in the nature of Dementors or something else is going on.
I think the general issue is that the overarching setting is essentially the same or very close to the original even if the details have changed. That’s an implicit pact that Eliezer has essentially made with the readers.
For what it is worth, prior to the end of the series there was a fair bit speculation that either Voldemort or Dumbledore was really a time traveling Harry (this speculation seemed most prominent after book 4 before book 5 came out).
At a general meta-level I also doubt Eliezer will do anything like this because this is still to a large extent Eliezer’s vehicle for trying to illustrate concepts about rationality and that sort of plot line would seriously distract from such a goal.
If it did turn out to be that I’d be annoyed since a) old Harry time traveling back has been done before and b) it would be such a stretch from the standard plot that making it turn out that way would strike me as too far removed from the original.
I think it could make a decent story. I’m not sure that it hasn’t strayed too far from canon anyway.
Sngr/Fgnl Cbggre
Nsgre guvf qronpyr, Uneel trgf pncgherq naq chg va Nmxunona sbe n ovg. Ur ybfrf nyy uvf unccl zrzbevrf naq gur novyvgl gb pnfg Cngebahf (vg vf n unccl zrzbel) naq fbzr bs uvf engvbanyvgl genvavat. Ur rira sbetrgf ur vf Uneel Cbggre (ur yvxrq orvat n obl jvgu qrfgval).
Urzvbar/Dhveery/Qenpb naq gur jrnfyrlf zbhag n erfphr, jvgu Urezvbar univat yrneag cngebahf sebz Uneel’f abgr.
Uneel vf nffhzrq gb or gur qnex ybeq, ol gur nhgubevgvrf, fb vf abg fnsr ng guvf gvzr, ur jbhyq or uhagrq qbja, fb vf genafcbegrq onpx va gvzr.
Gurer ur xvyyf bss Ibyqrzbeg cebcre naq fybjyl orpbzrf Dhveery. Guvf nyfb rkcynvaf jul gur Qrzragbef unir n orrs jvgu Dhveery, ur unf gur znex bs fbzrbar jub rfpncrq Nmxnona.
Dhveery unf gb pbnpu Uneel va guvf jnl gb sbez n fgnoyr gvzr ybbc.
Abj V qba’g ernyyl guvax vg vf guvf. Ohg fgvyy vg jencf hc n ahzore bs fgenaqf. V nyfb unira’g ernq rabhtu snasvp be gur ynfg srj obbxf bs Uneel Cbggre fb zl frafr bs jung unf orra qbar be fubhyq or qbar vf abg irel fgebat.
Ah, but how does he kill Voldemort? Your scenario doesn’t provide any power-up to go from irrational prisoner in Azkaban to Dark Lord-killer.
I suggest that before that, Harry remembers Quirrel’s story about the Chamber of Secrets, and regretfully kills the basilisk as well (to keep the time-loop stable). Indeed, a time-loop might explain how Quirrel found about it in the first place—the search procedure was simply to systematically investigate every old legend, and the Chamber was simply the one that panned out.
It depends how far back in time he is sent. He might have plenty of time to power up. Being fairly dead inside he might’ve got close to Voldemort and learnt his secrets, pretending to be an ally and then betrayed him.
It was mentioned that the time turner only works for 6h/24h. He first would have to invent time travel for longer distances.
I don’t endorse the future-Harry theory at all, but that said, I do think this would be a principled extrapolation… that is, it wouldn’t come out of nowhere, narratively.
We’ve already seen Harry experiment with time (and be warned not to). And we’ve seen, during Harry’s experiments with transmutation, that previously binding constraints on magic can be overcome by adopting a different model of what the magic is doing (1).
I’m no more an expert on the nature of time than I am on the nature of matter, but on the face of it a constraint like “6h/24h” seems as arbitrary as “whole objects only” (2).
So it stands to reason that a similar exercise of using a more accurate model of time could cause that constraint to evaporate (3), allowing Harry to develop an improved Time Turner with no practical upper limit on temporal range.
All of that said, Fermi’s Paradox as applied to time travel is a real problem. OTOH, if we’re willing to believe that “muggles” don’t notice the existence of wizards, I guess it’s not implausible that temporal natives don’t notice the existence of temporal tourists.
(1) One explanation is that by adopting a more accurate model of the manipulation being performed, one can discard constraints that were only ever consequences of the inaccuracies in one’s earlier model. (This seems the most likely explanation, given the author’s philosophical sensibilities.)
(2) Perhaps more, actually. There is a difference between how a cluster of iron atoms interacts with the other iron atoms in a chunk of iron, and how it interacts with the surrounding atmosphere, and that difference could fundamentally affect how transmutation works. It doesn’t in the MORverse, it seems, but it could have. Whereas I can’t think of any meaningful difference between a 6-hour displacement in time (“distimement”?) and a N-hour displacement for any N that is not a significant fraction of the age of the universe.
(3) That said, Harry would be well advised to take far more precautions than are currently available to him before experimenting. It may be that the 6-hour limit is actually a safety factor derived from the maximum distance over which the Turner can adjust the user’s spatial coordinates to keep them on the surface of the Earth, for example. Then again, the same could be said of experimenting with transmutation… at the very least, understanding where the extra energy goes seems like a good safety precaution. Then again again, I guess that sort of attitude is why I’m not a protagonist in heroic fiction.
And then he could bring some venture capital to save a certain car manufacturer from bankruptcy
I believe that the Dementors have a beef with Quirrell because (rot13) gur Qrzragbef ner Qrngu vapneangr naq Dhveeryy qrsvrq qrngu ol perngvat n ubepehk, abg gb zragvba qlvat naq abg fgnlvat qrnq. Gurl jnag gur cevmr gung’f orra qravrq gurz.
Reading some wikis tell me that Dementors didn’t have a problem with Voldy in canon, and that condition applies there. So either that is a deviation from canon, due to a change in the nature of Dementors or something else is going on.
The Dementors don’t represent death in Rowling’s canon. They are identified with depression.
Potential spoiler:
Vg pbhyq or gung Uneel vf fvzcyl zvfgnxra nobhg gur gehr angher bs Qrzragbef: Gurl qb abg ercerfrag Qrngu (gung vf Yrguvsbyqf), ohg engure zntvpnyyl pbapragengrq rkvfgragvny natfg (spoiler). Uneel’f gubhtug va gur Uhznavfz frdhrapr vf uvf guvat gb cebgrpg (spoiler), juvpu (jura uryq fgebatyl) vf n engvbany pbhagre gb rkvfgragvny natfg. Navznyf ner rssrpgvir Cngebav orpnhfr gurl’er abg ersyrpgvir rabhtu gb srry rkvfgragvny natfg.
Gur ovttrfg ceboyrz jvgu guvf gurbel vf gung Oryyngevk qbrf unir “fbzrguvat gb cebgrpg”—ure vagrafr ybir sbe Ibyql. Guvf gubhtug fubhyq unir rvgure fuvryqrq ure sebz gur vasyhrapr bs Qrzragbef be orra sbetbggra nf cneg bs gur Qrzragbef’ trareny rssrpg.
Fbzrguvat gb guvax nobhg sbe n zber pnabavpny fcvabss, gubhtu.
Nfvqr: Sha naq rkpvgrzrag jbhyq nyfb jbex nf rssrpgvir pbhagref gb rkvfgragvny natfg. Cerqvpgvba: Serq naq Trbetr Jrnfyrl jvyy qrirybc na rira zber rssrpgvir Cngebahf ol erqvfpbirevat fbzr bs gur 31 ynjf bs Sha (spoiler).
Yes, in canon he eventually recruited the Dementors, IIRC. This seems like a change in the nature of the Dementors.
If you edit your rot13 comments to plain-text I’ll upvote.
I think the general issue is that the overarching setting is essentially the same or very close to the original even if the details have changed. That’s an implicit pact that Eliezer has essentially made with the readers.
For what it is worth, prior to the end of the series there was a fair bit speculation that either Voldemort or Dumbledore was really a time traveling Harry (this speculation seemed most prominent after book 4 before book 5 came out).
At a general meta-level I also doubt Eliezer will do anything like this because this is still to a large extent Eliezer’s vehicle for trying to illustrate concepts about rationality and that sort of plot line would seriously distract from such a goal.