So… does it mean that it’s completely irrelevant who adopted Harry Potter, because the results would be the same anyway?
Or is the correct model something like: abuse can change things to worse, but any non-abusive parenting simply means the child will grow up determined by their genes? That is, we have a biologically set “destiny”, and all the environment can do is either help us reach this destiny or somehow cripple us halfway (by abuse, by lack of nutrition, etc.).
Or is the correct model something like: abuse can change things to worse, but any non-abusive parenting simply means the child will grow up determined by their genes? That is, we have a biologically set “destiny”, and all the environment can do is either help us reach this destiny or somehow cripple us halfway (by abuse, by lack of nutrition, etc.).
In an home environment within the normal range for a population, the home environment will matter little in a predictable sense on many traits compared to the genetic legacy, and random events/choices/biological-events/accidents/etc. There are some traits it will matter a lot on, and in a causal sense, the home environment may determine various important outcomes but not in a way that is predictable or easily measured. The other category of ‘nonshared environment’ is often bigger than the genetic legacy, so speaking of a biologically set destiny is misleading: biologically influenced would be a better phrase.
Has this been demonstrated for home environments in the developing world or sub-middle class home environments in the developed world? My prior understanding was that it had not been.
There are serious restriction of range problems with the literature. I believe that there is one small French adoption study with unrestricted range which produced 1 sigma IQ difference between the bottom and top buckets (deciles?) of adopting families.
I wonder if this what Shalizi alludes to when he says that IQ is closer to that of the adoptive parents than that of the biological parents.
I believe that there is one small French adoption study which produced 1 sigma IQ difference between the bottom and top buckets (deciles?) of adopting families.
(Both references describe the same study.) Capron & Duyme found 38 French children placed for adoption before age 2, 20 of them to parents with very high socioeconomic status (operationalized as having 14-23 years of education and working a profession) and 18 to parents with very low socioeconomic status (unskilled & semi-skilled labourers or farmers, with 5-8 years of education). When the kids took the WISC-R IQ test, those adopted into the high-SES families had a mean IQ of 111.6, while those in the low-SES families had a mean IQ of 100.0, for a difference of 0.77 sigma.
So… does it mean that it’s completely irrelevant who adopted Harry Potter, because the results would be the same anyway?
In the context of IQ I’ve seen it claimed that normal variation in parenting doesn’t do much, but extreme abuse can still have a substantial effect. So parenting quality would only make a difference at the tails of the parenting quality distribution, but there it would make quite a difference.
In “No Two Alike” Harris argues that the biggest non-shared environment personality determinant is peer group. So Harry Potter style “Lock him up in a closet with no friends” would actually have a huge effect.
And it should be noted that parents do have control over peer group: where to live, public school vs. private school vs. homeschooling, getting children to join things, etc. So parenting still matters even if it’s all down to genetics and non-shared environment.
Also, has anyone investigated whether the proper response to publicized social-science answers/theories/whatever you want to call them is to assume they’re true or just wait for them to be rejected? That is: how many publicized social-science answers [the same question could be asked for diet-advice answers conflicting with pre-nutrition-studies received wisdom, etc.] were later rejected? It could well be that the right thing to do in general is stick with common sense...
And it should be noted that parents do have control over peer group: where to live, public school vs. private school vs. homeschooling, getting children to join things, etc.
Exactly! If you have something to protect as a parent, then after hearing “parents are unimportant, the important stuff is some non-genetic X” the obvious reaction is: “Okay, so how can I influence X?” (Instead of saying: “Okay, then it’s not my fault, whatever.”)
For example, if I want my children to be non-smokers, and I learn that whether I am smoking or not has much smaller impact than whether my children’s friends are smoking… the obvious next question is: What can I do to increase the probability that my children’s friends will be non-smokers? There are many indirect methods like choosing the place to live, choosing the school, choosing free-time activities, etc. I would just like to have more data on what smoking correlates with; where should I send my children and where should I prevent them from going, so that even if they “naturally” pick their peer group in that place, they will more likely pick non-smokers. (Replace non-smoking with whatever is your parenting goal.)
Shortly, when I read “parenting” in a study, I mentally translate it as: “what an average, non-strategic parent does”. That’s not the same as: “what a parent could do”.
So… does it mean that it’s completely irrelevant who adopted Harry Potter, because the results would be the same anyway?
Or is the correct model something like: abuse can change things to worse, but any non-abusive parenting simply means the child will grow up determined by their genes? That is, we have a biologically set “destiny”, and all the environment can do is either help us reach this destiny or somehow cripple us halfway (by abuse, by lack of nutrition, etc.).
In an home environment within the normal range for a population, the home environment will matter little in a predictable sense on many traits compared to the genetic legacy, and random events/choices/biological-events/accidents/etc. There are some traits it will matter a lot on, and in a causal sense, the home environment may determine various important outcomes but not in a way that is predictable or easily measured. The other category of ‘nonshared environment’ is often bigger than the genetic legacy, so speaking of a biologically set destiny is misleading: biologically influenced would be a better phrase.
Has this been demonstrated for home environments in the developing world or sub-middle class home environments in the developed world? My prior understanding was that it had not been.
There are serious restriction of range problems with the literature. I believe that there is one small French adoption study with unrestricted range which produced 1 sigma IQ difference between the bottom and top buckets (deciles?) of adopting families.
I wonder if this what Shalizi alludes to when he says that IQ is closer to that of the adoptive parents than that of the biological parents.
Christiane Capron & Michel Duyme (1989), “Assessment of effects of socio-economic status on IQ in a full cross-fostering study”, Nature, 340, 552-554
Christiane Capron & Michel Duyme (1996), “Effect of Socioeconomic Status of Biological and Adoptive Parents on WISC-R Subtest Scores of their French Adopted Children”, Intelligence, 22, 259-275
(Both references describe the same study.) Capron & Duyme found 38 French children placed for adoption before age 2, 20 of them to parents with very high socioeconomic status (operationalized as having 14-23 years of education and working a profession) and 18 to parents with very low socioeconomic status (unskilled & semi-skilled labourers or farmers, with 5-8 years of education). When the kids took the WISC-R IQ test, those adopted into the high-SES families had a mean IQ of 111.6, while those in the low-SES families had a mean IQ of 100.0, for a difference of 0.77 sigma.
Thanks!
In the context of IQ I’ve seen it claimed that normal variation in parenting doesn’t do much, but extreme abuse can still have a substantial effect. So parenting quality would only make a difference at the tails of the parenting quality distribution, but there it would make quite a difference.
In “No Two Alike” Harris argues that the biggest non-shared environment personality determinant is peer group. So Harry Potter style “Lock him up in a closet with no friends” would actually have a huge effect.
And it should be noted that parents do have control over peer group: where to live, public school vs. private school vs. homeschooling, getting children to join things, etc. So parenting still matters even if it’s all down to genetics and non-shared environment.
Also, has anyone investigated whether the proper response to publicized social-science answers/theories/whatever you want to call them is to assume they’re true or just wait for them to be rejected? That is: how many publicized social-science answers [the same question could be asked for diet-advice answers conflicting with pre-nutrition-studies received wisdom, etc.] were later rejected? It could well be that the right thing to do in general is stick with common sense...
Exactly! If you have something to protect as a parent, then after hearing “parents are unimportant, the important stuff is some non-genetic X” the obvious reaction is: “Okay, so how can I influence X?” (Instead of saying: “Okay, then it’s not my fault, whatever.”)
For example, if I want my children to be non-smokers, and I learn that whether I am smoking or not has much smaller impact than whether my children’s friends are smoking… the obvious next question is: What can I do to increase the probability that my children’s friends will be non-smokers? There are many indirect methods like choosing the place to live, choosing the school, choosing free-time activities, etc. I would just like to have more data on what smoking correlates with; where should I send my children and where should I prevent them from going, so that even if they “naturally” pick their peer group in that place, they will more likely pick non-smokers. (Replace non-smoking with whatever is your parenting goal.)
Shortly, when I read “parenting” in a study, I mentally translate it as: “what an average, non-strategic parent does”. That’s not the same as: “what a parent could do”.
Fictional evidence, etc. Also, HPMOR has confounders, like a differing mechanism for Horcruxes.