Really? I doubt most Anglophones, even educated ones, know that—certainly the way the term is bandied about in the English-speaking press as though it were synonymous with “Extreme Islamist Indoctrination Centre” would make me guess that he’s less likely to be aware of that; it seems like very few people I hear using the term that way realize that a madrassa is often explicitly secular.
it seems like very few people I hear using the term that way realize that a madrassa is often explicitly secular.
That’s not totally accurate. While in some dialects of Arabic ‘madrassa’ simply means ‘school’ in both secular and religious settings, in other dialects the word refers only to where religious Islamic teaching takes place, and not secular schools.
Really? I doubt most Anglophones, even educated ones, know that
Well, I did, and my impression is that Steven Pinker is in general substantially more educated than I am, especially where issues of culture are concerned. So I would assign a high prior to him knowing any piece of cultural knowledge that I would. (Although I probably know substantially more Arabic than a random English speaker).
At the same time, there’s another relevant direction here: Words can have different meanings than they do in their native tongues, and it isn’t unreasonable to use in English the word madrassa just to mean the Islamic universities even though in Arabic the word just means university. In that context, the intended meaning of Pinker’s statement is clear. In that context, a possibly more relevant worry is the use of an Islamic example as the go-to rather than say a yeshiva where the point would work even better since both Hebrew and Yiddish have common, distinct words for universities v. schools devoted to religious study. But in that context, Pinker’s point is probably balanced by general pithiness given how much most Americans know (I suspect a lot more have heard the word madrassa than have heard the word yeshiva for example).
He cited a list of forager societies in Angels of Our Better Nature that didn’t include any foragers, so I wouldn’t be inclined to give him too much credit there. He sourced it from someone else, but the fact he didn’t recognize the inapplicability certainly didn’t convey much confidence about that.
Angels of Our Better Nature that didn’t include any foragers
Can you expand on this or cite? I know there was some controversy or whether some of the groups he described as foragers were foragers, but I’m not sure what you are talking about.
I’ve discussed this with several posters on LW in the past so while searching for my previous citations, I found this much better summary of the issue:
The distinction being made here is that foragers practice immediate-return food acquisition and usually don’t build up much of a surplus; they are nearly always mobile (simply because most biomes vary in their productivity) with the few exceptions who occupy especially-rich areas where they can be sedentary posing some other confounds that may warrant treating them as a distinct type of society (though this is not yet a part of mainstream consensus within the field).
The societies Pinker cited had either been engaged in traditional forms of agriculture or horticulture, which are quite distinct patterns of resource acquisition and social organization, or had experienced pronounced discontinuities with their traditional resource base for some time after colonization (it would essentially be like inferring about a traditional Native American society from a poor reservation community of today).
Really? I doubt most Anglophones, even educated ones, know that—certainly the way the term is bandied about in the English-speaking press as though it were synonymous with “Extreme Islamist Indoctrination Centre” would make me guess that he’s less likely to be aware of that; it seems like very few people I hear using the term that way realize that a madrassa is often explicitly secular.
That’s not totally accurate. While in some dialects of Arabic ‘madrassa’ simply means ‘school’ in both secular and religious settings, in other dialects the word refers only to where religious Islamic teaching takes place, and not secular schools.
Well, I did, and my impression is that Steven Pinker is in general substantially more educated than I am, especially where issues of culture are concerned. So I would assign a high prior to him knowing any piece of cultural knowledge that I would. (Although I probably know substantially more Arabic than a random English speaker).
At the same time, there’s another relevant direction here: Words can have different meanings than they do in their native tongues, and it isn’t unreasonable to use in English the word madrassa just to mean the Islamic universities even though in Arabic the word just means university. In that context, the intended meaning of Pinker’s statement is clear. In that context, a possibly more relevant worry is the use of an Islamic example as the go-to rather than say a yeshiva where the point would work even better since both Hebrew and Yiddish have common, distinct words for universities v. schools devoted to religious study. But in that context, Pinker’s point is probably balanced by general pithiness given how much most Americans know (I suspect a lot more have heard the word madrassa than have heard the word yeshiva for example).
He cited a list of forager societies in Angels of Our Better Nature that didn’t include any foragers, so I wouldn’t be inclined to give him too much credit there. He sourced it from someone else, but the fact he didn’t recognize the inapplicability certainly didn’t convey much confidence about that.
Can you expand on this or cite? I know there was some controversy or whether some of the groups he described as foragers were foragers, but I’m not sure what you are talking about.
I’ve discussed this with several posters on LW in the past so while searching for my previous citations, I found this much better summary of the issue:
http://lesswrong.com/lw/2i6/forager_anthropology/
The distinction being made here is that foragers practice immediate-return food acquisition and usually don’t build up much of a surplus; they are nearly always mobile (simply because most biomes vary in their productivity) with the few exceptions who occupy especially-rich areas where they can be sedentary posing some other confounds that may warrant treating them as a distinct type of society (though this is not yet a part of mainstream consensus within the field).
The societies Pinker cited had either been engaged in traditional forms of agriculture or horticulture, which are quite distinct patterns of resource acquisition and social organization, or had experienced pronounced discontinuities with their traditional resource base for some time after colonization (it would essentially be like inferring about a traditional Native American society from a poor reservation community of today).
Thanks, That’s apparently talking about one of the lists in The Blank Slate rather than Angels, but for purposes of your point works just the same.