“Brainwashing” is pretty vague and likely difficult. Hypnosis and LSD usually will not get you there, if I’m to believe what is declassified. It would need to have some way to set up incentives to get people to act, no? Or at least completely control my environment (and have the ability to administer the LSD and hypnosis?)
People constantly underestimate how hackable their brains are. Have you changed your mind and your life based on what you read or watched? This happens constantly and feels like your own volition. Yet it comes from external stimuli.
“Comes from external stumuli” in this case, or more accurately incorporates external information =/= brainwashing into slavery. To some extent what you’re saying is built of correct sentences, but you’re keeping things vague enough and unconnected enough to defend. Above you said, “subset of this scenario is a nightmarish one where humans are brainwashed by their mindless but articulate creations and serve them, kind of like the ancients served the rock idols they created. Enslaved by an LLM, what an irony.”
Yes, I have changed my mind based on things I have read and watched. One should do this based on new information. As for “happens consistently and feels like your own volition” I think you would need to unpack it a bit. “Consistently,” I don’t know. I’m 44 and an engineer and kind of a jackass, so maybe I don’t change my mind as often as I should. My new partner has a PhD in Nutrition though, so I have changed my mind partly based on studies she has presented (including some of her own research) and input regarding diet in the last several months.
That it “Feels like” “my” “volition” is even more complicated. I don’t know from whence will and volition arise, and they seem stochastic. I’m not entirely sure what “”“I””” am or where consciousness is, if the continuity of it is an illusion, or etc. These questions get really quickly out of what anyone knows for sure. But having been presented with both the papers and the food, eaten a lot, and noticed improved mood and energy levels, I’m pretty well sold on her approach being sound and the diet being great.
But you jump to service and enslavement? This is a bit more like someone needs to headbag me and then dump me in the back of their truck and drag me to a hidden site and inject me with LSD for six months or something. You are jumping scales drastically without discussing concrete anything, really. It might have emotional salience, but that hardly seems fit for a rationalist board.
Though I welcome discussion of concrete scenarios/possibilities of how you think this might go down. If those are realistic, this might be more interesting.
“Brainwashing” is pretty vague and likely difficult. Hypnosis and LSD usually will not get you there, if I’m to believe what is declassified. It would need to have some way to set up incentives to get people to act, no? Or at least completely control my environment (and have the ability to administer the LSD and hypnosis?)
People constantly underestimate how hackable their brains are. Have you changed your mind and your life based on what you read or watched? This happens constantly and feels like your own volition. Yet it comes from external stimuli.
“Comes from external stumuli” in this case, or more accurately incorporates external information =/= brainwashing into slavery. To some extent what you’re saying is built of correct sentences, but you’re keeping things vague enough and unconnected enough to defend. Above you said, “subset of this scenario is a nightmarish one where humans are brainwashed by their mindless but articulate creations and serve them, kind of like the ancients served the rock idols they created. Enslaved by an LLM, what an irony.”
Yes, I have changed my mind based on things I have read and watched. One should do this based on new information. As for “happens consistently and feels like your own volition” I think you would need to unpack it a bit. “Consistently,” I don’t know. I’m 44 and an engineer and kind of a jackass, so maybe I don’t change my mind as often as I should. My new partner has a PhD in Nutrition though, so I have changed my mind partly based on studies she has presented (including some of her own research) and input regarding diet in the last several months.
That it “Feels like” “my” “volition” is even more complicated. I don’t know from whence will and volition arise, and they seem stochastic. I’m not entirely sure what “”“I””” am or where consciousness is, if the continuity of it is an illusion, or etc. These questions get really quickly out of what anyone knows for sure. But having been presented with both the papers and the food, eaten a lot, and noticed improved mood and energy levels, I’m pretty well sold on her approach being sound and the diet being great.
But you jump to service and enslavement? This is a bit more like someone needs to headbag me and then dump me in the back of their truck and drag me to a hidden site and inject me with LSD for six months or something. You are jumping scales drastically without discussing concrete anything, really. It might have emotional salience, but that hardly seems fit for a rationalist board.
Though I welcome discussion of concrete scenarios/possibilities of how you think this might go down. If those are realistic, this might be more interesting.