Your argument against the idea that your belief that are 5 muscles of movement is a fake framework is a statement that that there are 5 muscles of movement. I don’t find this convincing.
The psoas muscle (pronounced SO-as) may be the most important muscle in your body. Without this essential muscle group you wouldn’t even be able to get out of the bed in the morning!
In fact, whether you run, bike, dance, practice yoga, or just hang out on your couch, your psoas muscles are involved. That’s because your psoas muscles are the primary connectors between your torso and your legs. They affect your posture and help to stabilize your spine.
The psoas muscles are made of both slow and fast twitching muscles. Because they are major flexors, weak psoas muscles can cause many of the surrounding muscles to compensate and become overused
i.e. some would put these in their list of “main muscles of movement”. The psoas are harder to sense than some other muscles—and perhaps less useful for your framework. When I say fake framework, I don’t mean what you are saying is obviously “wrong”, but that is somewhat arbitrary and subjective (i.e. there is no clear dividing line in “nature” for minor vs. major muscle groups). As you say, thinking about 5 muscles gives you something to focus on to develop “conscious proprioceptive skills”—psoas are not good to focus on, hence not part of your five muscles of movement.
An argument to the contrary?
I don’t feel the need to try and fit my hypothesis with other frameworks—there’s a lot out there and I just don’t have the time for a start. There are bits of truth in many things but this is ‘the bigger picture’. I believe I am correct. I feel it. I know it.
When you talk about “discovering something” and “feeling” your are correct, my impression goes into “crackpot” terrority, claiming on generalities from n=1. I love crackpot theories, but for a site like LessWrong I think it is reasonable to hold you to higher epistemic standards, which is why I am on your back about this.
Anyhow, one thing that hit home with your writing. I sometimes try to reduce my head forward posture but engaging upper traps, with some glute activation.
When I try to do it more intuitively (in conjunction with thinking about your framework), I realise that I need to work bottom up. So that might involve lengthening of the quads, lengthening of the abs, and only then some trap engagement, but trying to use the lower traps more. This takes a while to do properly, so it helps to sync with breathing (breathing in long etc...).
Thank you for thinking about this framework and these muscles. Bit by bit see how it feels. I’m too excited to get on with other things so a longer answer:
The psoas....
“your psoas muscles are the primary connectors between your torso and your legs.”
Primary connectors? A big statement, and I’d say no. A connection—yes, but looking at the anatomy (position/attachments/influence) of the psoas, versus a combination of 3 of the main muscles for movement: rectus abdominis, rectus femoris, gluteus maximus. What seems a ‘better’ system to move?, What muscles are capable of stabilising and connecting the leg (from pelvis to shin) and torso (from pelvis to thorax) through a full range of movement?
The Psoas major (Psoas magnus) is a long fusiform muscle placed on the side of the lumbar region of the vertebral column and brim of the lesser pelvis. It arises from the anterior surfaces of the bases and lower borders of the transverse processes of all the lumbar vertebræ from the sides of the bodies and the corresponding intervertebral fibrocartilages of the last thoracic and all the lumbar vertebræ by five slips, each of which is attached to the adjacent upper and lower margins of two vertebræ, and to the intervertebral fibrocartilage; from a series of tendinous arches which extend across the constricted parts of the bodies of the lumbar vertebræ between the previous slips; the lumbar arteries and veins, and filaments from the sympathetic trunk pass beneath these tendinous arches. The muscle proceeds downward across the brim of the lesser pelvis, and diminishing gradually in size, passes beneath the inguinal ligament and in front of the capsule of the hip-joint and ends in a tendon; the tendon receives nearly the whole of the fibers of the Iliacus and is inserted into the lesser trochanter of the femur.
Structurally, does a muscle that attaches to the lumbar spine and the femurseem a good idea as the primary connection between torso and legs?
“They affect your posture and help to stabilize your spine”.
True. But ‘secondary’. The psoas isn’t meant to “take the strain” and the lumbar spine is prone to problems when muscles aren’t used correctly.
“weak psoas muscles can cause many of the surrounding muscles to compensate and become overused”
Indeed. But I would argue that “weak” psoas ( over stressed?) comes with misusage of the ‘main muscles of movement’ and the imbalance and misalignment of the body.
thinking about 5 muscles gives you something to focus on to develop “conscious proprioceptive skills”—psoas are not good to focus on, hence not part of your five muscles of movement.
I’m not saying other muscles are unimportant (getting out of bed will be an issue if many individual muscles didn’t function). I am saying that these 5 muscles are the main muscles to focus on to using to their full potential and are the primary ‘support’ and ‘guides’ to align and balance the body. (which is a good thing).
Finding my Base-Line was the key to developing my conscious proprioception. Having the sensory feedback about primary guide for alignment (linea alba), feeling my ‘core pillar of strength’ (It’s hard not to resort to soundbites because they sum it up so well!)
The anatomy is all there. I believe it will stand up to the scrutiny of the biggest collection of rational thinkers I could find.
When you talk about “discovering something” and “feeling” your are correct, my impression goes into “crackpot” terrority, claiming on generalities from n=1. I love crackpot theories, but for a site like LessWrong I think it is reasonable to hold you to higher epistemic standards, which is why I am on your back about this.
Thank you! With all the karma I can bestow.
I know how it sounds. But I know I am right. I am but one let the ripples begin.
This is a rushed reply in a few minutes, I will answer in more detail when I can but I am on LW because hope for an audience that would:
Question me, to help me develop my thoughts and explanations.…
Be curious enough to think about these 5 muscles. Look at the anatomy. Find the muscles on your body. Starting from Base-Line Try it. Feel it. Give it time.
pelvic floor Base. rectus abdominis Line—section by section. rectus femoris shin to hip. gluteus maximus solid and strong. trapezius wide and free.
That sums it up. Focus on these muscles and improve the physical state of the body.
Your argument against the idea that your belief that are 5 muscles of movement is a fake framework is a statement that that there are 5 muscles of movement. I don’t find this convincing.
I mentioned there the psoas because of claims from some e.g. https://www.drnorthrup.com/psoas-muscle-vital-muscle-body/ :
i.e. some would put these in their list of “main muscles of movement”. The psoas are harder to sense than some other muscles—and perhaps less useful for your framework. When I say fake framework, I don’t mean what you are saying is obviously “wrong”, but that is somewhat arbitrary and subjective (i.e. there is no clear dividing line in “nature” for minor vs. major muscle groups). As you say, thinking about 5 muscles gives you something to focus on to develop “conscious proprioceptive skills”—psoas are not good to focus on, hence not part of your five muscles of movement.
An argument to the contrary?
When you talk about “discovering something” and “feeling” your are correct, my impression goes into “crackpot” terrority, claiming on generalities from n=1. I love crackpot theories, but for a site like LessWrong I think it is reasonable to hold you to higher epistemic standards, which is why I am on your back about this.
Anyhow, one thing that hit home with your writing. I sometimes try to reduce my head forward posture but engaging upper traps, with some glute activation.
When I try to do it more intuitively (in conjunction with thinking about your framework), I realise that I need to work bottom up. So that might involve lengthening of the quads, lengthening of the abs, and only then some trap engagement, but trying to use the lower traps more. This takes a while to do properly, so it helps to sync with breathing (breathing in long etc...).
Thank you for thinking about this framework and these muscles. Bit by bit see how it feels. I’m too excited to get on with other things so a longer answer:
The psoas....
Primary connectors? A big statement, and I’d say no. A connection—yes, but looking at the anatomy (position/attachments/influence) of the psoas, versus a combination of 3 of the main muscles for movement: rectus abdominis, rectus femoris, gluteus maximus. What seems a ‘better’ system to move?, What muscles are capable of stabilising and connecting the leg (from pelvis to shin) and torso (from pelvis to thorax) through a full range of movement?
Edited to add anatomy from Gray’s:
The Psoas major (Psoas magnus) is a long fusiform muscle placed on the side of the lumbar region of the vertebral column and brim of the lesser pelvis. It arises from the anterior surfaces of the bases and lower borders of the transverse processes of all the lumbar vertebræ from the sides of the bodies and the corresponding intervertebral fibrocartilages of the last thoracic and all the lumbar vertebræ by five slips, each of which is attached to the adjacent upper and lower margins of two vertebræ, and to the intervertebral fibrocartilage; from a series of tendinous arches which extend across the constricted parts of the bodies of the lumbar vertebræ between the previous slips; the lumbar arteries and veins, and filaments from the sympathetic trunk pass beneath these tendinous arches. The muscle proceeds downward across the brim of the lesser pelvis, and diminishing gradually in size, passes beneath the inguinal ligament and in front of the capsule of the hip-joint and ends in a tendon; the tendon receives nearly the whole of the fibers of the Iliacus and is inserted into the lesser trochanter of the femur.
Structurally, does a muscle that attaches to the lumbar spine and the femur seem a good idea as the primary connection between torso and legs?
True. But ‘secondary’. The psoas isn’t meant to “take the strain” and the lumbar spine is prone to problems when muscles aren’t used correctly.
Indeed. But I would argue that “weak” psoas ( over stressed?) comes with misusage of the ‘main muscles of movement’ and the imbalance and misalignment of the body.
I’m not saying other muscles are unimportant (getting out of bed will be an issue if many individual muscles didn’t function). I am saying that these 5 muscles are the main muscles to focus on to using to their full potential and are the primary ‘support’ and ‘guides’ to align and balance the body. (which is a good thing).
Finding my Base-Line was the key to developing my conscious proprioception. Having the sensory feedback about primary guide for alignment (linea alba), feeling my ‘core pillar of strength’ (It’s hard not to resort to soundbites because they sum it up so well!)
The anatomy is all there. I believe it will stand up to the scrutiny of the biggest collection of rational thinkers I could find.
Thank you! With all the karma I can bestow.
I know how it sounds. But I know I am right. I am but one let the ripples begin.
This is a rushed reply in a few minutes, I will answer in more detail when I can but I am on LW because hope for an audience that would:
Question me, to help me develop my thoughts and explanations.…
Be curious enough to think about these 5 muscles. Look at the anatomy. Find the muscles on your body. Starting from Base-Line Try it. Feel it. Give it time.
pelvic floor Base. rectus abdominis Line—section by section. rectus femoris shin to hip. gluteus maximus solid and strong. trapezius wide and free.
That sums it up. Focus on these muscles and improve the physical state of the body.