I do take a calcium supplement on medical advice, but there’s a medical history behind that. I’m not sure it’s really necessary though.
My expectation is that if I eat as much as I want of everything I want then I’ll get enough of whatever trace substances I need, and that taking more will have no effect until one gets up to toxic levels. There is a large gap between the necessary amount and a toxic amount. The inverted J that Phil Goetz described has a very wide and flat bowl.
However, this is not based on any specific scientific finding that I know of, just general principles of biological organisation and the conditions in which we and all other organisms evolved. Consider that we need many different vitamins, minerals, and amino acids, without which we die, and the same is true of other animals. How can we possibly get what we need, without the benefit of modern science to tell us? When we lack one of them, we can tell we’re unwell, but we can’t tell what we need or how to get it, excepting only air and water. Look how long it took to solve scurvy, beri-beri, rickets, and so on. Hunger has more than one dimension, but fewer than the number of things we need. Trying to mix and match foodstuffs to obtain exactly the right amount of everything is impossible under these conditions.
Since, in general, we do get enough without knowing how, and getting exactly enough is impossible, we do not get exactly enough. We inevitably get more than enough of some things, and discard or store what our bodies leave unused. We can tolerate getting a lot more than enough because we have to, or we’d die of an excess of this or that micronutrient as often as from a deficiency.
I’m not sure I understand your point, as it seems your argument would lead you to take vitamins.
I’ll explain.
When we lack one of them, we can tell we’re unwell, but we can’t tell what we need or how to get it, excepting only air and water.
Do you feel healthy all the time, and if not do you know the exact cause every time you don’t? I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who always feels healthy or anyone who always knows the exact reason they don’t.
Since, in general, we do get enough without knowing how, and getting exactly enough is impossible, we do not get exactly enough.
How do you know that in our environment today we get enough?
We inevitably get more than enough of some things, and discard or store what our bodies leave unused.
It seems strange that it’s inevitable that we get more than enough of some things, but not that we get less than enough of other things.
The conclusion I draw from your argument is that because the inverted J has a wide, flat bowl, I should take vitamin supplements. Where am I misunderstanding your point?
How do you know that in our environment today we get enough?
My expectation is that in times of such plenty as the present, anyone not in poverty or following some very restricted diet will find it difficult not to get enough of everything.
In my case, I’m well-off and eat whatever I want, which is much the same range of things in much the same quantities, year after year. Therefore if I have a deficiency, it must be a chronic one. But I have no chronic health problems beyond slowly decaying teeth and the aftereffects of an acute illness many years ago of unknown aetiology. Therefore, I conclude, I experience no chronic dietary deficiency. (I have not seen dietary supplements touted as a cure for tooth decay, and I have seen everything touted as preventatives for diseases with no known cause.) I am over 50, so I think that’s long enough a trial.
(Digression: fun fact for bright young things! Nearly everyone over 50 has at least something that has gone wrong with their bodies and will never be fixed. I suspect that not many young people in good health realise this. Barring radical advances in medical science, this is what you have to look forward to.)
There are those who say that health is more than just the absence of illness, but I’ve never been able to make out what they mean. Perhaps by “health” they mean being possessed of great physical energy and joie de vivre, rather than merely being free of identifiable problems, but I’ve never seen anyone attribute that to supplements except the people selling them. I haven’t particularly looked, though.
Those of you who do take dietary supplements: in what ways do you feel different, depending on whether you take them or not?
I read Seth Roberts’ blog, and this sounds like something he might have addressed, but Googling [“Seth Roberts” vitamins] didn’t turn up anything.
My expectation is that in times of such plenty as the present, anyone not in poverty or following some very restricted diet will find it difficult not to get enough of everything.
I have indeed! But Googling them, xylitol’s selling point seems to be “not as destructive as sugar” rather than positively preventing decay. The first recommendation I found of garlic as a preventative also said that chewing a clove every day prevents bad breath. Um....
xylitol’s selling point seems to be “not as destructive as sugar” rather than positively preventing decay.
Research ‘xylitol, mothers, teeth’. That should hopefully bring you to the study that was done on mothers who were given xylitol during pregnancy and/or the early period while nursing newborns. It was found to have an actual protective effect and, if I recall, delayed the spreading of ‘nasty’ bacteria to the child from the mother.
Xylitol also kills bacteria in vivo. In laymans terms ‘the bacteria notice that it is sugar but don’t realise it is weird alcohol sugar so they eat it then starve’. So it is not merely a way to not have sugar in your mouth while also getting your ‘sweet’ on. Note that it also kills ‘good’ bacteria in the same way so too much isn’t recommended, for the sake of your digestive system!
As for garlic… sure, it kills bacteria, but really, a clove a day… that isn’t one I’ve chosen to make a habit of. I’ll use listerine thanks!
RE: Xylitol again. I do recommend chewing gum flavoured with the stuff, not necessarily actually eating it!
I’m no expert by any means, but my general feeling is that most people today don’t get everything they need. Especially if they eat whatever they want. We’re not optimized to want what’s best for us in today’s world. For example, we want fatty foods and in today’s environment such foods are over-available. Maybe someone with more knowledge can point to information on the subject.
However, I have always assumed (with no real knowledge one way or the other except for the fact that our bodies are complicated kludges) that being deficient in some nutrients can not only cause identifiable health problems, but can also cause other things that you may not want.
As an example, say that being deficient in Vitamin X ended up knocking 10 points off what your IQ could have been potentially. How would you know?
Being a non-expert in the field, and taking all the things you’ve talked about, leads me to take dietary supplements. (A multivitamin that at the moment I can’t recall what it contains and a Vitamin D capsule daily) They are inexpensive (obscenely inexpensive if you’re well-off), and as far as I can tell do no harm if I don’t need them.
None.
I do take a calcium supplement on medical advice, but there’s a medical history behind that. I’m not sure it’s really necessary though.
My expectation is that if I eat as much as I want of everything I want then I’ll get enough of whatever trace substances I need, and that taking more will have no effect until one gets up to toxic levels. There is a large gap between the necessary amount and a toxic amount. The inverted J that Phil Goetz described has a very wide and flat bowl.
However, this is not based on any specific scientific finding that I know of, just general principles of biological organisation and the conditions in which we and all other organisms evolved. Consider that we need many different vitamins, minerals, and amino acids, without which we die, and the same is true of other animals. How can we possibly get what we need, without the benefit of modern science to tell us? When we lack one of them, we can tell we’re unwell, but we can’t tell what we need or how to get it, excepting only air and water. Look how long it took to solve scurvy, beri-beri, rickets, and so on. Hunger has more than one dimension, but fewer than the number of things we need. Trying to mix and match foodstuffs to obtain exactly the right amount of everything is impossible under these conditions.
Since, in general, we do get enough without knowing how, and getting exactly enough is impossible, we do not get exactly enough. We inevitably get more than enough of some things, and discard or store what our bodies leave unused. We can tolerate getting a lot more than enough because we have to, or we’d die of an excess of this or that micronutrient as often as from a deficiency.
I’m not sure I understand your point, as it seems your argument would lead you to take vitamins.
I’ll explain.
Do you feel healthy all the time, and if not do you know the exact cause every time you don’t? I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who always feels healthy or anyone who always knows the exact reason they don’t.
How do you know that in our environment today we get enough?
It seems strange that it’s inevitable that we get more than enough of some things, but not that we get less than enough of other things.
The conclusion I draw from your argument is that because the inverted J has a wide, flat bowl, I should take vitamin supplements. Where am I misunderstanding your point?
My expectation is that in times of such plenty as the present, anyone not in poverty or following some very restricted diet will find it difficult not to get enough of everything.
In my case, I’m well-off and eat whatever I want, which is much the same range of things in much the same quantities, year after year. Therefore if I have a deficiency, it must be a chronic one. But I have no chronic health problems beyond slowly decaying teeth and the aftereffects of an acute illness many years ago of unknown aetiology. Therefore, I conclude, I experience no chronic dietary deficiency. (I have not seen dietary supplements touted as a cure for tooth decay, and I have seen everything touted as preventatives for diseases with no known cause.) I am over 50, so I think that’s long enough a trial.
(Digression: fun fact for bright young things! Nearly everyone over 50 has at least something that has gone wrong with their bodies and will never be fixed. I suspect that not many young people in good health realise this. Barring radical advances in medical science, this is what you have to look forward to.)
There are those who say that health is more than just the absence of illness, but I’ve never been able to make out what they mean. Perhaps by “health” they mean being possessed of great physical energy and joie de vivre, rather than merely being free of identifiable problems, but I’ve never seen anyone attribute that to supplements except the people selling them. I haven’t particularly looked, though.
Those of you who do take dietary supplements: in what ways do you feel different, depending on whether you take them or not?
I read Seth Roberts’ blog, and this sounds like something he might have addressed, but Googling [“Seth Roberts” vitamins] didn’t turn up anything.
Chronic vitamin D deficiency is common.
Xylitol. Garlic. Now you have.
Tea as well, through its large doses of fluoride and its anti-bacterial properties.
I have indeed! But Googling them, xylitol’s selling point seems to be “not as destructive as sugar” rather than positively preventing decay. The first recommendation I found of garlic as a preventative also said that chewing a clove every day prevents bad breath. Um....
Research ‘xylitol, mothers, teeth’. That should hopefully bring you to the study that was done on mothers who were given xylitol during pregnancy and/or the early period while nursing newborns. It was found to have an actual protective effect and, if I recall, delayed the spreading of ‘nasty’ bacteria to the child from the mother.
Xylitol also kills bacteria in vivo. In laymans terms ‘the bacteria notice that it is sugar but don’t realise it is weird alcohol sugar so they eat it then starve’. So it is not merely a way to not have sugar in your mouth while also getting your ‘sweet’ on. Note that it also kills ‘good’ bacteria in the same way so too much isn’t recommended, for the sake of your digestive system!
As for garlic… sure, it kills bacteria, but really, a clove a day… that isn’t one I’ve chosen to make a habit of. I’ll use listerine thanks!
RE: Xylitol again. I do recommend chewing gum flavoured with the stuff, not necessarily actually eating it!
I’m no expert by any means, but my general feeling is that most people today don’t get everything they need. Especially if they eat whatever they want. We’re not optimized to want what’s best for us in today’s world. For example, we want fatty foods and in today’s environment such foods are over-available. Maybe someone with more knowledge can point to information on the subject.
However, I have always assumed (with no real knowledge one way or the other except for the fact that our bodies are complicated kludges) that being deficient in some nutrients can not only cause identifiable health problems, but can also cause other things that you may not want.
As an example, say that being deficient in Vitamin X ended up knocking 10 points off what your IQ could have been potentially. How would you know?
Being a non-expert in the field, and taking all the things you’ve talked about, leads me to take dietary supplements. (A multivitamin that at the moment I can’t recall what it contains and a Vitamin D capsule daily) They are inexpensive (obscenely inexpensive if you’re well-off), and as far as I can tell do no harm if I don’t need them.