I have something of a supergoal to become increasingly competent and capable, very much enjoying those things for their own sake (along with some instrumental benefits). I also have some terminal desire to be “cool”, which is very related but distinct. The appearance benefits mostly just serve that goal.
Was there an emotion cluster besides this one you were picking out? It sounds potentially enlightening to hear it.
Was there an emotion cluster besides this one you were picking out?
Nope, that’s the one. I’d been hypothesizing recently that such aspirations would be the positive emotions most likely to lead to sustained and disciplined actions.
[I group emotions (and the evolutionary terminal values driving them) into four major categories: Significance, Affiliation, Safety, and Stimulation—SASS for short. The desires to be cool, impressive, admirable, and/or proud of one’s accomplishments all fall under “Significance”. While each group can motivate both positively and negatively in principle, each seems to impart different behavioral biases in practice. Significance and Affiliation seem to be the only ones that can motivate long-term disciplined behavior, and Affiliation seems to need to be other-directed in order to be useful.]
Interesting. That analysis makes a lot of sense to me, and I largely agree with it, including the idea that Affiliation and Significance are the most useful for long-term disciplined behavior. However as I was thinking back on this the other day, I realized that my second example:
Back when I was studying Japanese intensively, I associated it with in image of having mastery over the language and all its characters, and strolling about some neon-lit Japanese street with some wonderful Japanese woman.
was a drive for stimulation. None of my friends or family would have been particularly impressed (or unhappy) with such an accomplishment, and I myself didn’t consider it that amazing. Many people on Earth know 2 or more languages fluently, and while the people around me in Japan would find me a novelty or somewhat impressive (partly because of the cultural subconscious idea that Japanese is impossible to learn), I would basically just be “able to speak the language”; proficient but not exceptional. I also wasn’t thinking of doing anything really advanced like becoming an author in the language, just in getting by with it and understanding the language around me. My drive in this case came largely from this feeling of Japan as a sort of magical place, based partly on experiences I’d had during an earlier visit of 2-3 weeks. That really was a magical (and occasionally frustrating) trip.
I think this is just an unusual exception to the generally good analysis you put forward, but for accuracy I wanted to point it out.
I have something of a supergoal to become increasingly competent and capable, very much enjoying those things for their own sake (along with some instrumental benefits). I also have some terminal desire to be “cool”, which is very related but distinct. The appearance benefits mostly just serve that goal.
Was there an emotion cluster besides this one you were picking out? It sounds potentially enlightening to hear it.
Nope, that’s the one. I’d been hypothesizing recently that such aspirations would be the positive emotions most likely to lead to sustained and disciplined actions.
[I group emotions (and the evolutionary terminal values driving them) into four major categories: Significance, Affiliation, Safety, and Stimulation—SASS for short. The desires to be cool, impressive, admirable, and/or proud of one’s accomplishments all fall under “Significance”. While each group can motivate both positively and negatively in principle, each seems to impart different behavioral biases in practice. Significance and Affiliation seem to be the only ones that can motivate long-term disciplined behavior, and Affiliation seems to need to be other-directed in order to be useful.]
Interesting. That analysis makes a lot of sense to me, and I largely agree with it, including the idea that Affiliation and Significance are the most useful for long-term disciplined behavior. However as I was thinking back on this the other day, I realized that my second example:
was a drive for stimulation. None of my friends or family would have been particularly impressed (or unhappy) with such an accomplishment, and I myself didn’t consider it that amazing. Many people on Earth know 2 or more languages fluently, and while the people around me in Japan would find me a novelty or somewhat impressive (partly because of the cultural subconscious idea that Japanese is impossible to learn), I would basically just be “able to speak the language”; proficient but not exceptional. I also wasn’t thinking of doing anything really advanced like becoming an author in the language, just in getting by with it and understanding the language around me. My drive in this case came largely from this feeling of Japan as a sort of magical place, based partly on experiences I’d had during an earlier visit of 2-3 weeks. That really was a magical (and occasionally frustrating) trip.
I think this is just an unusual exception to the generally good analysis you put forward, but for accuracy I wanted to point it out.
Thanks!