Yet people wonder why I find Eliezer and other LessWrongers annoying because they’ve moved into the cryonics community and now act like they invented its key ideas and phrases. James D. Miller’s presents such a one-sided, narrow and frankly preposterous view of cryonics in Singularity Rising that I literally threw my paperback copy across the room in frustration with it. Does Miller describe the contributions of people who actually had something to do with cryonics, namely, Bob Ettinger, Saul Kent, Curtis Henderson, Art Quaife, Fred Chamberlain, Jerry Leaf, Hugh Hixon, Mike Darwin? No, instead he invokes Eliezer and Robin as the current go-to authority figures on the subject, yet these guys’ experience with cryopreservaiton probably hasn’t extended beyond putting groceries in the kitchen freezer.
Then again, if you present the thing with faces who got in relatively recently, people’s two-second first impression might be more of a “hey, new thing, shiny” and not “if people were already going on about this stuff 20 years ago and and it still has very little traction, something must be wrong with it”.
My book only briefly discussed cryonics but extensively discussed Eliezer and Robin and so when I discussed cryonics I connected it to these men. And yes since I only briefly discussed cryonics my discussion was narrow.
A intellectual history of cryonics doesn’t really belong in a book focusing on the economic implications of future increases in human and artificial intelligence.
One can do both, as in the case of OP who is both spreading the idea and also a claim about who deserves the credit for the idea.
(And credit is not neutral; if one hears that Darwin, rather than Eliezer or Hanson, coined a term or idea, one might go read Chronopause.com because of it and learn a great deal of things a cryonicists ought to know.)
One can do both, as in the case of OP who is both spreading the idea and also a claim about who deserves the credit for the idea.
I agree that ideally everyone should do both, but it seemed like advancedatheist was blaming LessWrong, Eliezer and Hanson for other people’s failure to give credit to the correct people. Attacking Eliezer for getting too much credit for spreading the idea of cryonics seems counterproductive to the goal spreading this idea (which I presume is an actual goal of the cryonics community advancedatheist is a part of).
(And credit is not neutral; if one hears that Darwin, rather than Eliezer or Hanson, coined a term or idea, one might go read Chronopause.com because of it and learn a great deal of things a cryonicists ought to know.)
I’m confused by your point here. Are you advocating that credit for an idea should go towards the most famous person possible, so it gets the most exposure? Isn’t this the very thing advancedatheist is complaining about?
I’m confused by your point here. Are you advocating that credit for an idea should go towards the most famous person possible, so it gets the most exposure?
My point here is that Eliezer gets read plenty on the topic of cryonics, perhaps more than he should, while people like Darwin get read too little, even by people who should be reading them. Allocating credit towards Eliezer and away from someone like Darwin exacerbates this.
My cryonics thesis was that if you think that any of the futures predicted by Kurzweil, Hanson, or Eliezer are plausible then you should sign up for cryonics.
If a moment of the cucumber’s life is worth anything at all (epsilon > 0), and that worth doesn’t converge towards 0 arbitrarily close (series has no limit), then the life of that single immortal cucumber is worth more than the existence of all currently living humans. You monster.
Not even taking into account the terrible torture of skinning the cucumber alive, making the salad.
You have me at a disadvantage! Enlightenment dawns. It would clearly be an act of greatest impropriety not to donate all of my proceds to a charity which evaluates charities which themselves purchase a maximal number of cucumbers for the lowest possible price per. Being quite dead myself, and thus bearing no particular cost of living, I estimate the full sum of my household income could be devoted to the task without breaking the bank, as it were. But, hold—would it be better to direct my humble servant to the task of increasing the household income directly? Or simply turn her into fertilizer in which future generations of cucumbers might be grown? I estimate her mass at perhaps 43 kilograms. Being profoundly ignorant in matters of horticulture, I attempted to discreetly inquire whether that might not be enough fertilizer to sustain the growth of a plot yielding 3^^^3 cucumbers in all—a quantity so great that their aggregate benefit would clearly justify parting her from the use of her flesh. She has become suspicious of my motives, I fear, and won’t answer. I find this behavior profoundly selfish on her part!
When I eat the cucumber it becomes part of me, a moment of my life times the part of me that is that cucumber is worth more than the life of a cucumber alone, and through cryonics I intend to live forever.
Yuyuko is a monster if and only if he has not signed up for cryonics.
Being now quite thoroughly postmortem, it would seem an act of futile vanity to attempt it. Oh, but it does sound deliciously novel! Perhaps you would be willing to let me partake of your form instead, and preserve the least choice of parts in such a manner? I daresay it would take a full day of roasting and require a great deal of salt. You shall have the consolation of becoming a part of me, a moment of my...well, at any rate existence, times the part of me that is your mortal coil is worth more than your life alone (to borrow your eccentric phrasing!) Through basic inertia I expect to exist forever, so your finite loss is more than exceeded by infinite gain.
I do hope you consider my proposal, and solicit your opinion as to whether you would go better with rice or sweet potato.
Excuse me. I coined the verb “to cryocrastinate” over 20 years ago: http://www.nanodic.com/Nanomaterial/Cryocrastinate.htm
Cryonicists also called cryonics “an ambulance ride to the future” way back then as well, despite the phrase’s current imputation to Eliezer: http://www.alcor.org/Library/html/casereport9209.html
Yet people wonder why I find Eliezer and other LessWrongers annoying because they’ve moved into the cryonics community and now act like they invented its key ideas and phrases. James D. Miller’s presents such a one-sided, narrow and frankly preposterous view of cryonics in Singularity Rising that I literally threw my paperback copy across the room in frustration with it. Does Miller describe the contributions of people who actually had something to do with cryonics, namely, Bob Ettinger, Saul Kent, Curtis Henderson, Art Quaife, Fred Chamberlain, Jerry Leaf, Hugh Hixon, Mike Darwin? No, instead he invokes Eliezer and Robin as the current go-to authority figures on the subject, yet these guys’ experience with cryopreservaiton probably hasn’t extended beyond putting groceries in the kitchen freezer.
I have never claimed credit for either phrase, and fully support all efforts to see them attributed appropriately.
Then again, if you present the thing with faces who got in relatively recently, people’s two-second first impression might be more of a “hey, new thing, shiny” and not “if people were already going on about this stuff 20 years ago and and it still has very little traction, something must be wrong with it”.
My book only briefly discussed cryonics but extensively discussed Eliezer and Robin and so when I discussed cryonics I connected it to these men. And yes since I only briefly discussed cryonics my discussion was narrow.
A intellectual history of cryonics doesn’t really belong in a book focusing on the economic implications of future increases in human and artificial intelligence.
Isn’t it better that the ideas get spread rather than who gets the credit?
One can do both, as in the case of OP who is both spreading the idea and also a claim about who deserves the credit for the idea.
(And credit is not neutral; if one hears that Darwin, rather than Eliezer or Hanson, coined a term or idea, one might go read Chronopause.com because of it and learn a great deal of things a cryonicists ought to know.)
I agree that ideally everyone should do both, but it seemed like advancedatheist was blaming LessWrong, Eliezer and Hanson for other people’s failure to give credit to the correct people. Attacking Eliezer for getting too much credit for spreading the idea of cryonics seems counterproductive to the goal spreading this idea (which I presume is an actual goal of the cryonics community advancedatheist is a part of).
I’m confused by your point here. Are you advocating that credit for an idea should go towards the most famous person possible, so it gets the most exposure? Isn’t this the very thing advancedatheist is complaining about?
My point here is that Eliezer gets read plenty on the topic of cryonics, perhaps more than he should, while people like Darwin get read too little, even by people who should be reading them. Allocating credit towards Eliezer and away from someone like Darwin exacerbates this.
My cryonics thesis was that if you think that any of the futures predicted by Kurzweil, Hanson, or Eliezer are plausible then you should sign up for cryonics.
Hey, those cucumbers are gonna live forever.
Immortal cucumbers make the best salads.
If a moment of the cucumber’s life is worth anything at all (epsilon > 0), and that worth doesn’t converge towards 0 arbitrarily close (series has no limit), then the life of that single immortal cucumber is worth more than the existence of all currently living humans. You monster.
Not even taking into account the terrible torture of skinning the cucumber alive, making the salad.
You have me at a disadvantage! Enlightenment dawns. It would clearly be an act of greatest impropriety not to donate all of my proceds to a charity which evaluates charities which themselves purchase a maximal number of cucumbers for the lowest possible price per. Being quite dead myself, and thus bearing no particular cost of living, I estimate the full sum of my household income could be devoted to the task without breaking the bank, as it were. But, hold—would it be better to direct my humble servant to the task of increasing the household income directly? Or simply turn her into fertilizer in which future generations of cucumbers might be grown? I estimate her mass at perhaps 43 kilograms. Being profoundly ignorant in matters of horticulture, I attempted to discreetly inquire whether that might not be enough fertilizer to sustain the growth of a plot yielding 3^^^3 cucumbers in all—a quantity so great that their aggregate benefit would clearly justify parting her from the use of her flesh. She has become suspicious of my motives, I fear, and won’t answer. I find this behavior profoundly selfish on her part!
Oh, but must we give up winter melon as well?
When I eat the cucumber it becomes part of me, a moment of my life times the part of me that is that cucumber is worth more than the life of a cucumber alone, and through cryonics I intend to live forever.
Yuyuko is a monster if and only if he has not signed up for cryonics.
Hopefully when the grey goo eats you, you’ll appreciate the finer points of your argument.
I think you’re treating “worth” as an one-place word, while it isn’t.
Being now quite thoroughly postmortem, it would seem an act of futile vanity to attempt it. Oh, but it does sound deliciously novel! Perhaps you would be willing to let me partake of your form instead, and preserve the least choice of parts in such a manner? I daresay it would take a full day of roasting and require a great deal of salt. You shall have the consolation of becoming a part of me, a moment of my...well, at any rate existence, times the part of me that is your mortal coil is worth more than your life alone (to borrow your eccentric phrasing!) Through basic inertia I expect to exist forever, so your finite loss is more than exceeded by infinite gain.
I do hope you consider my proposal, and solicit your opinion as to whether you would go better with rice or sweet potato.
I understand Yuyuko opted for an alternate suspension mechanism, as her local cryonics provider only accepts frogs.
By here I mean’t “the rationalist community” or “among lesswrongers”
Both were correct. By all means I did not mean anything, that could ever be offensive to anyone.
Title adjusted, thanks!