What I meant by the word “our” was “the broader context culture-at-large,” not Less Wrong or my own personal home culture or anything like that. Apologies, that could’ve been clearer.
I think there’s another point on the spectrum (plane?) that’s neither “overt anti-intellectualism” nor “It seems to me that engaging with you will be unproductive and I should disengage.” That point being something like, “It’s reasonable and justified to conclude that this questioning isn’t going to be productive to the overall goal of the discussion, and is either motivated-by or will-result-in some other effect entirely.”
Something stronger than “I’m disengaging according to my own boundaries” and more like “this is subtly but significantly transgressive, by abusing structures that are in place for epistemic inquiry.”
If the term “sealioning” is too tainted by connotation to serve, then it’s clearly the wrong word to use; TIL. But I disagree that we don’t need or shouldn’t have any short, simple handle in this concept space; it still seems useful to me to be able to label the hypothesis without (as Oliver did) having to write words and words and words and words. The analogy to the usefulness of the term “witchhunt” was carefully chosen; it’s the sort of thing that’s hard to see at first, and once you’ve put forth the effort to see it, it’s worth … idk, cacheing or something?
What I meant by the word “our” was “the broader context culture-at-large,” not Less Wrong or my own personal home culture or anything like that. Apologies, that could’ve been clearer.
No, I got that, I was just using the opportunity to riff off your “In My Culture” piece[1] while defending Said, who is a super valuable commenter who I think is being treated pretty unfairly in this 133-comment-and-counting meta trainwreck!
Sure, sometimes he’s insistent on pressing for rigor in a way could seem “nitpicky” or “dense” to readers who, like me, are more likely to just shrug and say, “Meh, I think I mostly get the gist of what the author is trying to say” rather than honing in on a particular word or phrase and writing a comment asking for clarification.
But that’s valuable. I am glad that a website nominally devoted to mastering the hidden Bayesian structure of cognition to the degree of precision required to write a recursively self-improving superintelligence to rule over our entire future lightcone has people whose innate need for rigor is more demanding than my sense of “Meh, I think I mostly get the gist”!
while defending Said, who is a super valuable commenter
Just wanted to note that, as a person who often finds Said’s style off-putting, I appreciate reading this counterpoint from you.
EDIT: In my ideal world, Said can find a way to still be nitpick-y and insistent on precision and rigor in a way that doesn’t frustrate me (and other readers) so much. I am unfortunately not exactly sure how to get to there from here.
What I meant by the word “our” was “the broader context culture-at-large,” not Less Wrong or my own personal home culture or anything like that. Apologies, that could’ve been clearer.
I think there’s another point on the spectrum (plane?) that’s neither “overt anti-intellectualism” nor “It seems to me that engaging with you will be unproductive and I should disengage.” That point being something like, “It’s reasonable and justified to conclude that this questioning isn’t going to be productive to the overall goal of the discussion, and is either motivated-by or will-result-in some other effect entirely.”
Something stronger than “I’m disengaging according to my own boundaries” and more like “this is subtly but significantly transgressive, by abusing structures that are in place for epistemic inquiry.”
If the term “sealioning” is too tainted by connotation to serve, then it’s clearly the wrong word to use; TIL. But I disagree that we don’t need or shouldn’t have any short, simple handle in this concept space; it still seems useful to me to be able to label the hypothesis without (as Oliver did) having to write words and words and words and words. The analogy to the usefulness of the term “witchhunt” was carefully chosen; it’s the sort of thing that’s hard to see at first, and once you’ve put forth the effort to see it, it’s worth … idk, cacheing or something?
No, I got that, I was just using the opportunity to riff off your “In My Culture” piece[1] while defending Said, who is a super valuable commenter who I think is being treated pretty unfairly in this 133-comment-and-counting meta trainwreck!
Sure, sometimes he’s insistent on pressing for rigor in a way could seem “nitpicky” or “dense” to readers who, like me, are more likely to just shrug and say, “Meh, I think I mostly get the gist of what the author is trying to say” rather than honing in on a particular word or phrase and writing a comment asking for clarification.
But that’s valuable. I am glad that a website nominally devoted to mastering the hidden Bayesian structure of cognition to the degree of precision required to write a recursively self-improving superintelligence to rule over our entire future lightcone has people whose innate need for rigor is more demanding than my sense of “Meh, I think I mostly get the gist”!
This is actually the second time in four months. Sorry, it writes itself!
Just wanted to note that, as a person who often finds Said’s style off-putting, I appreciate reading this counterpoint from you.
EDIT: In my ideal world, Said can find a way to still be nitpick-y and insistent on precision and rigor in a way that doesn’t frustrate me (and other readers) so much. I am unfortunately not exactly sure how to get to there from here.