2b seems unlikely given Harry’s memory of the night matching the official line. Did Dumbledore do a FMC on baby Harry?
Also, remember that for someone with Horcruxes, one can de facto fake one’s own death by actually dying and waiting for the resurrection. There’s no particular need to assume that he survived that night in the traditional sense of the word.
But Harry’s memory didn’t include Voldemort casting Avada Kedavra on Harry. That memory is neutral WRT the “rebounded Avada Kedavra” hypothesis.
Also, no part of a rebuttal to your comment, but re-reading the scene, what’s with this line?:
And the boy in the crib saw it, the eyes, those two crimson eyes, seeming to glow bright red, to blaze like miniature suns, filling Harry’s whole vision as they locked to his own -
In canon? In MoR eye-contact has happened a bunch of times since Harry got good enough to detect Legilimency, it’s just been the usual dramatic device.
Didn’t Moaning Myrtle recount something similar about her own death in canon, in which the glowing eyes were the Basilisk’s?
It’d be funny if the rock Dumbledore gives Harry were actually a piece of petrified:
a) James (and Dumbledore knows)
b) Voldemort (and he doesn’t)
c) Harry himself (and the scenario for that would be ridiculous).
A FMC is described as completely envisioned and controlled by the caster, putting as much time into it as the memory covers; so Dumbledore in FMCing a baby Harry is choosing every detail of the scene. Given that… why would Dumbledore direct a scene like Harry recollects? It has several oddities which reduce its value as a ‘you killed my parents! In the name of the Moon, I will punish you!’ memory.
That’s the one. It certainly came from somewhere—IIRC, it’s got details he wasn’t told that have been confirmed, which means that it’s not an internally-generated false memory. So either it’s real, or it’s been implanted by someone familiar with the tale.
Perhaps one of the at-least-two people who downvoted me would like to tell me what these details are that make it impossible for the memory to have been internally generated.
So far, all I can come up with is this: on the basis of Voldemort’s mild reluctance to kill his mother in this memory, Harry deduced (via a rather tenuous chain of reasoning) that Dumbledore told Snape about the prophecy, and when he confronted McGonagall with this she behaved in a manner consistent with what he deduced. This doesn’t seem all that conclusive to me. What am I missing?
In fact, I’m pretty sure that events did not happen as Harry deduced them. In canon, Snape overheard the prophecy being given. This seems to match up with what Snape says in the chapter formerly known as 77:
I thought I had merely happened to overhear it, when in truth it was I who was overheard.
Therefore I suggest that Dumbledore did not tell Snape about the prophecy. I’m not sure why or how McGonagall knows: possibly, in a departure from canon, she was conducting Trelawney’s interview instead of Dumbledore himself.
The beginning of Harry’s line of reasoning is that Voldemort was not terribly eager to kill Lily Potter. This seems likely to be true, but is also not indicative of anything. It’s a mildly strange thing to imagine, but we imagine strange things all the time.
Quirrell suggests that Harry can see Thestrals due to his memory of that night, which would suggest that it’s a true memory. But Harry seems to think that he saw the Thestrals because he has realized that Dementors are death, so that he has “seen death and comprehended it” in a more literal sense.
I’m not sure why or how McGonagall knows: possibly, in a departure from canon, she was conducting Trelawneys’ interview instead of Dumbledore himself.
Yep:
The old wizard’s face turned grave. “The same reason it must be kept secret, Minerva. The same reason I told you to come to me, if Harry made any such claim. Because it is a power that Voldemort knows not.”
The words took a few seconds to sink in.
And then the cold shiver went down her spine, as it always did when she remembered.
It had started out as an ordinary job interview, Sybill Trelawney applying for the position of Professor of Divination.
[Snip prophecy]
Those dreadful words, spoken in that terrible booming voice, didn’t seem to fit something like partial Transfiguration.
“Perhaps not, then,” Dumbledore said after Minerva tried to explain. [...]
2b seems unlikely given Harry’s memory of the night matching the official line. Did Dumbledore do a FMC on baby Harry?
Also, remember that for someone with Horcruxes, one can de facto fake one’s own death by actually dying and waiting for the resurrection. There’s no particular need to assume that he survived that night in the traditional sense of the word.
But Harry’s memory didn’t include Voldemort casting Avada Kedavra on Harry. That memory is neutral WRT the “rebounded Avada Kedavra” hypothesis.
Also, no part of a rebuttal to your comment, but re-reading the scene, what’s with this line?:
legilimency of some sort? or simply dramatic license. I don’t remember any example of that particular action being pointed out that wasn’t leglimency.
In canon? In MoR eye-contact has happened a bunch of times since Harry got good enough to detect Legilimency, it’s just been the usual dramatic device.
Didn’t Moaning Myrtle recount something similar about her own death in canon, in which the glowing eyes were the Basilisk’s?
It’d be funny if the rock Dumbledore gives Harry were actually a piece of petrified: a) James (and Dumbledore knows) b) Voldemort (and he doesn’t) c) Harry himself (and the scenario for that would be ridiculous).
Brings a whole new meaning to the phrase “your father’s rock”, doesn’t it?
A FMC is described as completely envisioned and controlled by the caster, putting as much time into it as the memory covers; so Dumbledore in FMCing a baby Harry is choosing every detail of the scene. Given that… why would Dumbledore direct a scene like Harry recollects? It has several oddities which reduce its value as a ‘you killed my parents! In the name of the Moon, I will punish you!’ memory.
This memory?
That’s the one. It certainly came from somewhere—IIRC, it’s got details he wasn’t told that have been confirmed, which means that it’s not an internally-generated false memory. So either it’s real, or it’s been implanted by someone familiar with the tale.
Or he imagined it and merely believed it to be a memory.
My memory may be in error on this point, but I did consider your hypothesis and explicitly reject it.
Perhaps one of the at-least-two people who downvoted me would like to tell me what these details are that make it impossible for the memory to have been internally generated.
So far, all I can come up with is this: on the basis of Voldemort’s mild reluctance to kill his mother in this memory, Harry deduced (via a rather tenuous chain of reasoning) that Dumbledore told Snape about the prophecy, and when he confronted McGonagall with this she behaved in a manner consistent with what he deduced. This doesn’t seem all that conclusive to me. What am I missing?
In fact, I’m pretty sure that events did not happen as Harry deduced them. In canon, Snape overheard the prophecy being given. This seems to match up with what Snape says in the chapter formerly known as 77:
Therefore I suggest that Dumbledore did not tell Snape about the prophecy. I’m not sure why or how McGonagall knows: possibly, in a departure from canon, she was conducting Trelawney’s interview instead of Dumbledore himself.
The beginning of Harry’s line of reasoning is that Voldemort was not terribly eager to kill Lily Potter. This seems likely to be true, but is also not indicative of anything. It’s a mildly strange thing to imagine, but we imagine strange things all the time.
Quirrell suggests that Harry can see Thestrals due to his memory of that night, which would suggest that it’s a true memory. But Harry seems to think that he saw the Thestrals because he has realized that Dementors are death, so that he has “seen death and comprehended it” in a more literal sense.
Yep: