Consuming media and playing games is very passive; I thought the emphasis of the ‘working on’ pages were about stuff that was in some way creative or productive. If you just want to discuss what media you plan to consume, well, isn’t that what http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/9t4/february_2012_media_thread/ is for?
Would you say the same thing about playing chess, with the goal to reach a certain ELO rating? I agree about the former, but not about the latter. Many (video) games require a tremendous amount of memory, decision making, modeling of others, that make them arguably productive. I wouldn’t describe playing Starcraft (or really any game) as “consuming” media at all, it’s a very active process. In some cases, Starcraft is actually replacing Chess as the model system for cognitive science. It’s always really bothered me that video games are considered to be very low brow, while certain other games (chess, go, bridge) are (rather arbitrarily) considered very high brow. I love chess, I love bridge, and I’ve never really tried Go. But I also love Starcraft, for many of the same reasons. Not every video game is like chess, certainly; there are many that are more analogous to checkers. But many are just as good at cultivating the same skills chess does—and some do it better.
Edit: I will say though, (I think) the OP was about World of Warcraft, which, while I have never played it, I don’t particularly think very highly of it. It seems much more like an addiction machine. But, like I said, I haven’t played it.
The older teen uses it to socialise. She met her last two boyfriends on MMORPGs. She’s moving in with the latest one this month. I expect that counts as winning.
Would you say the same thing about playing chess, with the goal to reach a certain ELO rating?
I’d say the same thing I’d say to David Gerard, which is that deliberately trying to attain a certain improvement in skills is much closer to work than fun, and is ‘deliberate practice’ of the sort so valuable in other areas (pace Ericsson), and to be encouraged. If you’re reading hard literature and entering words you don’t know or striking quotes into Mnemosyne, that’s more appropriate for this page than just reading Discworld or something.
Yeah, it’s approaching art to level up in art appreciation and general comprehension of humanity, or to unwind. That said, the two aren’t incompatible.
I dunno. I’ve just finished reading through Actually (the last collection of essays and reviews) by Christopher Hitchens, and it’s inspiring me to go out and read some of this stuff he’s going on about. The one I’m on right now is Black Lamb and Grey Falcon by Rebecca West, the 2007 Penguin edition with a lengthy intro by Hitchens. The book is a doorstop-sized travelogue of Yugoslavia in the 1930s, a subject I have little interest in; I’m bothering only because a literature fan like Hitchens raved about it. And so far it’s page-turningly good. So yeah, attempting to level up in books and media—to improve one’s mind by becoming more highly literate—could indeed count as a project (personal improvement), I think.
That said, I agree that MMORPGs are pushing it just a bit.
I mean… I’d tend to agree. But it says “any kind project is fair game” so...
Consuming media and playing games is very passive; I thought the emphasis of the ‘working on’ pages were about stuff that was in some way creative or productive. If you just want to discuss what media you plan to consume, well, isn’t that what http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/9t4/february_2012_media_thread/ is for?
Would you say the same thing about playing chess, with the goal to reach a certain ELO rating? I agree about the former, but not about the latter. Many (video) games require a tremendous amount of memory, decision making, modeling of others, that make them arguably productive. I wouldn’t describe playing Starcraft (or really any game) as “consuming” media at all, it’s a very active process. In some cases, Starcraft is actually replacing Chess as the model system for cognitive science. It’s always really bothered me that video games are considered to be very low brow, while certain other games (chess, go, bridge) are (rather arbitrarily) considered very high brow. I love chess, I love bridge, and I’ve never really tried Go. But I also love Starcraft, for many of the same reasons. Not every video game is like chess, certainly; there are many that are more analogous to checkers. But many are just as good at cultivating the same skills chess does—and some do it better.
Edit: I will say though, (I think) the OP was about World of Warcraft, which, while I have never played it, I don’t particularly think very highly of it. It seems much more like an addiction machine. But, like I said, I haven’t played it.
The older teen uses it to socialise. She met her last two boyfriends on MMORPGs. She’s moving in with the latest one this month. I expect that counts as winning.
I’d say the same thing I’d say to David Gerard, which is that deliberately trying to attain a certain improvement in skills is much closer to work than fun, and is ‘deliberate practice’ of the sort so valuable in other areas (pace Ericsson), and to be encouraged. If you’re reading hard literature and entering words you don’t know or striking quotes into Mnemosyne, that’s more appropriate for this page than just reading Discworld or something.
Yeah, it’s approaching art to level up in art appreciation and general comprehension of humanity, or to unwind. That said, the two aren’t incompatible.
Some World of Warcraft strategy discussion.
That’s a good point. There’s a lot of math that goes into any power-gaming build.
I dunno. I’ve just finished reading through Actually (the last collection of essays and reviews) by Christopher Hitchens, and it’s inspiring me to go out and read some of this stuff he’s going on about. The one I’m on right now is Black Lamb and Grey Falcon by Rebecca West, the 2007 Penguin edition with a lengthy intro by Hitchens. The book is a doorstop-sized travelogue of Yugoslavia in the 1930s, a subject I have little interest in; I’m bothering only because a literature fan like Hitchens raved about it. And so far it’s page-turningly good. So yeah, attempting to level up in books and media—to improve one’s mind by becoming more highly literate—could indeed count as a project (personal improvement), I think.
That said, I agree that MMORPGs are pushing it just a bit.