Most scholars of the field regard the Holodomor famine as unintentional on the part of the Soviet government.
When the government takes away food from the entire country, by searching the farms and confiscating every grain… it takes some chutzpah to call the resulting famine “unintentional”.
There is evidence that members of the Soviet administration tried to reduce the impact of the famine.
Some people working in Soviet administration were not monsters. Of course. There were good people among the Nazis, too. Doesn’t make the regimes less evil.
Purposeful deaths of Marxist regimes might be around 10 million.
If you agree to reframe this as “even the greatest apologists of Marxist regimes, after excluding all deniable deaths, couldn’t reduce the number of victims below 10 millions”, okay.
(But to me it feels like having a debate that Nazis only killed 3 million Jews, because according to some historians, people who died of X, Y, and Z don’t really count. Yeah, maybe. So what?)
I was just pointing out that 100 million killed by Communism is a dubious conclusion, arrived by large overestimates made in ignorance. Such estimates, are now rejected in the academic, but the 100 million figure is still used.
‘So what?’ needs no answer. I am not justifying anyone, or defending Marxist regimes.
The Soviet administration reduced the amount of grain to be exported in the first half of 1933 from Ukraine by 50% from the amount exported in the first half of 1932. Moreover, 300000 tonnes of grains were allocated to Ukraine to combat the famine. As the situation got worse grain acquisitions were decreased.
When the government takes away food from the entire country, by searching the farms and confiscating every grain… it takes some chutzpah to call the resulting famine “unintentional”.
Some people working in Soviet administration were not monsters. Of course. There were good people among the Nazis, too. Doesn’t make the regimes less evil.
If you agree to reframe this as “even the greatest apologists of Marxist regimes, after excluding all deniable deaths, couldn’t reduce the number of victims below 10 millions”, okay.
(But to me it feels like having a debate that Nazis only killed 3 million Jews, because according to some historians, people who died of X, Y, and Z don’t really count. Yeah, maybe. So what?)
I was just pointing out that 100 million killed by Communism is a dubious conclusion, arrived by large overestimates made in ignorance. Such estimates, are now rejected in the academic, but the 100 million figure is still used.
‘So what?’ needs no answer. I am not justifying anyone, or defending Marxist regimes.
The Soviet administration reduced the amount of grain to be exported in the first half of 1933 from Ukraine by 50% from the amount exported in the first half of 1932. Moreover, 300000 tonnes of grains were allocated to Ukraine to combat the famine. As the situation got worse grain acquisitions were decreased.