Sure, if third wave means 500 BC roughly :) I suppose you mean something like vipassana or Zazen where the object of meditation is breath. esp. breathing out.
I tried that like a lot, as I used to have a huge interest in Buddhism. The results are not very good. Zazen worked for me only when and if my posture was perfect, such as using a high pillow and under the tailbone only, not sitting on it, which IMHO corrects for the usual anterior pelvic tilt and the local teacher pushed down my shoulders like a dozen times because I tend to pull them up to my ears, then it worked. When I just sat on a pillow or chair and tried to hold myself more or less erect, nope. The less perfect posture used in Tibetan originated gompas. No luck.
I don’t know how strongly Westernized, clinical version of it focuses on posture. They usually just tell people to sit up straight. People then pull their shoulders back a bit, but it does not correct the lower back. You can never have a perfect lower back on a chair. I don’t think this works this way, at least for me it never did.
Also, we should consider what is the goal. The goal of vipassana / Zazen is to achieve a state of mind that is a bit like getting high on acid. A really bright but objectless awareness. When the posture is perfect, Zazen achieves it by making the breathways really easy, that and looking at a white wall with eyes 45 degrees cast down tends to generate this objectless awareness.
The Tibetan versions also often included visualizing some lights that is probably a better idea. I like the idea that you visualize shooting rainbow lights at people from your heart center and this light making them happy. It is supposed to increase compassion, and if it does, that can be actually useful against ruminations. There are also the more “religious” stuff like mantras or buddha-forms meditations.
Hahaha, third wave for psychiatry...we’re pretty slow on the uptake.
I’m only familiar with the clinical western version, which is mindfulness based. So the main focus is on being aware in the current moment of sensations in your body and how they change. Basically just noticing. Also a very high emphasis on acceptance and gentle redirection back to the present moment when you notice that thoughts begin to form. Posture is whatever position is comfortable: a straight backed chair or laying on the ground.
I can see the similarities between the meditations you describe and the western version, but I can also definitely see why the practice has been modified to be more forgiving if it’s aimed at depressed people. What you describe sounds very exacting which is probably not great for someone prone to berating themselves out of proportion. Most of the western versions I’ve heard include something like the phrase “if your mind wanders, this is to be expected. Your brain is a thinking machine and it’s designed to do just that. Just gently bring it back to your breathing for as long as you can whenever you notice it wandering again.”
I would be interested in trying to original versions. I attempted something like lovingkindness meditation, which is Tibetan and involves imagining and feeling compassion for someone you love, then trying to feel the same compassion for someone you feel neutral about, someone you don’t get along with, then everyone. It seemed to have good results.
Sure, if third wave means 500 BC roughly :) I suppose you mean something like vipassana or Zazen where the object of meditation is breath. esp. breathing out.
I tried that like a lot, as I used to have a huge interest in Buddhism. The results are not very good. Zazen worked for me only when and if my posture was perfect, such as using a high pillow and under the tailbone only, not sitting on it, which IMHO corrects for the usual anterior pelvic tilt and the local teacher pushed down my shoulders like a dozen times because I tend to pull them up to my ears, then it worked. When I just sat on a pillow or chair and tried to hold myself more or less erect, nope. The less perfect posture used in Tibetan originated gompas. No luck.
I don’t know how strongly Westernized, clinical version of it focuses on posture. They usually just tell people to sit up straight. People then pull their shoulders back a bit, but it does not correct the lower back. You can never have a perfect lower back on a chair. I don’t think this works this way, at least for me it never did.
Also, we should consider what is the goal. The goal of vipassana / Zazen is to achieve a state of mind that is a bit like getting high on acid. A really bright but objectless awareness. When the posture is perfect, Zazen achieves it by making the breathways really easy, that and looking at a white wall with eyes 45 degrees cast down tends to generate this objectless awareness.
The Tibetan versions also often included visualizing some lights that is probably a better idea. I like the idea that you visualize shooting rainbow lights at people from your heart center and this light making them happy. It is supposed to increase compassion, and if it does, that can be actually useful against ruminations. There are also the more “religious” stuff like mantras or buddha-forms meditations.
Hahaha, third wave for psychiatry...we’re pretty slow on the uptake.
I’m only familiar with the clinical western version, which is mindfulness based. So the main focus is on being aware in the current moment of sensations in your body and how they change. Basically just noticing. Also a very high emphasis on acceptance and gentle redirection back to the present moment when you notice that thoughts begin to form. Posture is whatever position is comfortable: a straight backed chair or laying on the ground.
I can see the similarities between the meditations you describe and the western version, but I can also definitely see why the practice has been modified to be more forgiving if it’s aimed at depressed people. What you describe sounds very exacting which is probably not great for someone prone to berating themselves out of proportion. Most of the western versions I’ve heard include something like the phrase “if your mind wanders, this is to be expected. Your brain is a thinking machine and it’s designed to do just that. Just gently bring it back to your breathing for as long as you can whenever you notice it wandering again.”
I would be interested in trying to original versions. I attempted something like lovingkindness meditation, which is Tibetan and involves imagining and feeling compassion for someone you love, then trying to feel the same compassion for someone you feel neutral about, someone you don’t get along with, then everyone. It seemed to have good results.