I’ve decided to live less on the internet (a.k.a. the world’s most popular superstimulus) and more in real life. I pledge to give $75 to MIRI if I make any more posts on this account or on my reddit account before the date of October 13 (two months from now).
On a related note, I was thinking about how to solve the problem of the constant temptation to waste time on the internet. For most superstimuli, the correct action is to cut yourself off completely, but that’s not really an option at all here. Even disregarding the fact that it would be devastatingly impractical in today’s world, the internet is an instant connection to all the information in the world, making it incredibly useful. Ideally one would use the internet purely instrumentally—you would have an idea of what you want to do, open up the browser, do it, then close the browser.
To that end, I have an idea for a Chrome extension. You would open up the browser, and a pop-up would appear prompting you to type in your reason for using the internet today. Then, your reason would be written in big black letters at the top of the page while you’re browsing, and only go away when you close Chrome. This would force you to remain focused on whatever you were doing, and when you notice that you’ve fulfilled that purpose and are now just checking your email for no reason, that would be your clue to close the browser and do something else.
I don’t think anything like this exists yet. I might try to make it myself—I don’t have that much coding experience, but it seems like it could be relatively easy.
Perhaps a stupid question, or, more accurately, not even a question—but I don’t understand this attitude. If you enjoy going on the Internet, why would you want to stop? If you don’t enjoy it, why would it tempt you? It reminds me, and I mean no offense by this, like the attitude addicts have towards drugs. But it really stretches plausibility to say that the Internet could be something like a drug.
Perhaps a stupid question, or, more accurately, not even a question—but I don’t understand this attitude. If you enjoy going on the Internet, why would you want to stop? If you don’t enjoy it, why would it tempt you?
Wanting is mediated by dopamine. Liking is mostly about opiods. The two features are (unfortunately) not always in sync.
It reminds me, and I mean no offence by this, like the attitude addicts have towards drugs. But it really stretches plausibility to say that the Internet could be something like a drug.
It really doesn’t stretch plausibility. The key feature here is “has addictive potential”. It doesn’t matter to the brain whether the reward is endogenous dopamine released in response to a stimulus or something that came in a pill.
This is confusing to me. Intuitively, reward that is not wireheading is a good thing, and the Internet’s rewarding-ness is in complex and meaningful information which is the exact opposite of wireheading. For the same reason, I’m confused about what tasty foods are not seen as a dangerous evil that needs to be escaped.
there are things that can too easily expand to fill all of your time while only being a certain level of better than baseline. If you want to feel even better than just browsing the internet you need to not allow it to fill all your time. I also value doing DIFFERENT things, though not everyone does. It’s easier to do different activities (ie the threshold cost to starting them, which is usually the biggest emotional price you pay) if you’re NOT doing something fairly engrossing already.
if your base state is 0 hedons (neutral) an hour, internet is 5 hedons an hour, and going to go out dancing is maybe 1 hedon during travel time and 20 while doing it, it’s easier to go dancing if you’re deliberately cutting off your internet time, because you don’t have to spend −4 hedons to get out of the house.
Another concern is when people care about things other than direct hedons. If you have goals other than enjoying your time, then allowing internet to take up all your time sabotages those goals.
it really stretches plausibility to say that the Internet could be something like a drug.
The brain appears to have separable capabilities for wanting something and enjoying something. There are definitely some things that I feel urges to do but don’t particularly enjoy at any point. A common example is lashing out at someone verbally—sometimes, especially on the internet, I have urges to be a jerk, but when I act on those urges it isn’t rewarding to me.
I guess I can’t identify with that feeling. I don’t think I’ve ever felt that way—I’ve never wanted something that I could have identified as “not rewarding” at the time that I wanted it (regardless of the how long I reflected on it). The only times I wanted something but didn’t enjoy it was because of lack of information.
I pledge to give $75 to MIRI if I make any more posts on this account or on my reddit account before the date of October 13 (two months from now).
Quick, everyone! If we can do it for less than $75, then let’s make LW super extra interesting to gothgirl420666 for the next two months. :D
Joking aside, perhaps an effective strategy for making yourself spend less time online is to reduce your involvement with online communities—for me at least, flashing inbox icons and commitments made to people on various forums (such as promising you’ll upload a certain file) are a big part of what makes me keep coming back to certain places I want to spent less time at. If it weren’t for that nagging feeling in the back of my mind, that I’ll lose social cred in some place if I don’t come back and act on my promises, or vanish for a few months and leave PMs unanswered, I’d be tempted to make a “vow of online silence” too.
I can imagine a site-blocking tool where you could select a browsing “mode”. Each mode would block different websites. When you open an unknown website, it would ask you to classify it.
Typical modes are “work” (you block everything not work-related) and “free time” (you may still want to block the largest time sinks), but maybe there could be something like “a break from the work” that would allow some fun but keep within some limits, for example only allow programming-related blogs and debates.
I’ve decided to live less on the internet (a.k.a. the world’s most popular superstimulus) and more in real life. I pledge to give $75 to MIRI if I make any more posts on this account or on my reddit account before the date of October 13 (two months from now).
I’ve decided to live less on the internet (a.k.a. the world’s most popular superstimulus) and more in real life. I pledge to give $75 to MIRI if I make any more posts on this account or on my reddit account before the date of October 13 (two months from now).
On a related note, I was thinking about how to solve the problem of the constant temptation to waste time on the internet. For most superstimuli, the correct action is to cut yourself off completely, but that’s not really an option at all here. Even disregarding the fact that it would be devastatingly impractical in today’s world, the internet is an instant connection to all the information in the world, making it incredibly useful. Ideally one would use the internet purely instrumentally—you would have an idea of what you want to do, open up the browser, do it, then close the browser.
To that end, I have an idea for a Chrome extension. You would open up the browser, and a pop-up would appear prompting you to type in your reason for using the internet today. Then, your reason would be written in big black letters at the top of the page while you’re browsing, and only go away when you close Chrome. This would force you to remain focused on whatever you were doing, and when you notice that you’ve fulfilled that purpose and are now just checking your email for no reason, that would be your clue to close the browser and do something else.
I don’t think anything like this exists yet. I might try to make it myself—I don’t have that much coding experience, but it seems like it could be relatively easy.
Perhaps a stupid question, or, more accurately, not even a question—but I don’t understand this attitude. If you enjoy going on the Internet, why would you want to stop? If you don’t enjoy it, why would it tempt you? It reminds me, and I mean no offense by this, like the attitude addicts have towards drugs. But it really stretches plausibility to say that the Internet could be something like a drug.
Wanting is mediated by dopamine. Liking is mostly about opiods. The two features are (unfortunately) not always in sync.
It really doesn’t stretch plausibility. The key feature here is “has addictive potential”. It doesn’t matter to the brain whether the reward is endogenous dopamine released in response to a stimulus or something that came in a pill.
This is confusing to me. Intuitively, reward that is not wireheading is a good thing, and the Internet’s rewarding-ness is in complex and meaningful information which is the exact opposite of wireheading. For the same reason, I’m confused about what tasty foods are not seen as a dangerous evil that needs to be escaped.
there are things that can too easily expand to fill all of your time while only being a certain level of better than baseline. If you want to feel even better than just browsing the internet you need to not allow it to fill all your time. I also value doing DIFFERENT things, though not everyone does. It’s easier to do different activities (ie the threshold cost to starting them, which is usually the biggest emotional price you pay) if you’re NOT doing something fairly engrossing already.
if your base state is 0 hedons (neutral) an hour, internet is 5 hedons an hour, and going to go out dancing is maybe 1 hedon during travel time and 20 while doing it, it’s easier to go dancing if you’re deliberately cutting off your internet time, because you don’t have to spend −4 hedons to get out of the house.
Another concern is when people care about things other than direct hedons. If you have goals other than enjoying your time, then allowing internet to take up all your time sabotages those goals.
The brain appears to have separable capabilities for wanting something and enjoying something. There are definitely some things that I feel urges to do but don’t particularly enjoy at any point. A common example is lashing out at someone verbally—sometimes, especially on the internet, I have urges to be a jerk, but when I act on those urges it isn’t rewarding to me.
Aaanyhow, your sentence is also the worst argument :P
I guess I can’t identify with that feeling. I don’t think I’ve ever felt that way—I’ve never wanted something that I could have identified as “not rewarding” at the time that I wanted it (regardless of the how long I reflected on it). The only times I wanted something but didn’t enjoy it was because of lack of information.
Quick, everyone! If we can do it for less than $75, then let’s make LW super extra interesting to gothgirl420666 for the next two months. :D
Joking aside, perhaps an effective strategy for making yourself spend less time online is to reduce your involvement with online communities—for me at least, flashing inbox icons and commitments made to people on various forums (such as promising you’ll upload a certain file) are a big part of what makes me keep coming back to certain places I want to spent less time at. If it weren’t for that nagging feeling in the back of my mind, that I’ll lose social cred in some place if I don’t come back and act on my promises, or vanish for a few months and leave PMs unanswered, I’d be tempted to make a “vow of online silence” too.
I use AdBlock to block the “new messages” icon on LessWrong at my work.
I can imagine a site-blocking tool where you could select a browsing “mode”. Each mode would block different websites. When you open an unknown website, it would ask you to classify it.
Typical modes are “work” (you block everything not work-related) and “free time” (you may still want to block the largest time sinks), but maybe there could be something like “a break from the work” that would allow some fun but keep within some limits, for example only allow programming-related blogs and debates.
checks
Congratulations!