I’ve looked at Markdown syntax documentation but I can’t figure out how to fix this.
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[re mimikry] I don’t understand how this is relevant.
They get the effect by having a stimulus applied at the same time to both hands. If the real hand moves the fake hand moves as well in the same way. That’s how you create rapport.
If two people are in strong rapport and you hurt one of them, the other also feels hurt.
I also think that it’s probably true that most of the participants wouldn’t say that they can anticipate or feel pain due to injury to something that is not part of their body.
I don’t think that’s true. Any neurotypical person who has a decent level of empathy, should have experiences where they felt pain when another person got hurt.
I did. I also tried putting a less-than sign on each line as suggested elsewhere. I don’t know what’s going on with that.
They get the effect by having a stimulus applied at the same time to both hands. If the real hand moves the fake hand moves as well in the same way. That’s how you create rapport. If two people are in strong rapport and you hurt one of them, the other also feels hurt.
This is too vague for me to make heads or tails of it, but in any event, some subjects actually mistook the rubber hand for their real hand. I also said that some subjects felt physical pain. This is not a matter of empathizing with the pain of something else. And we’re talking about a table. I don’t know anyone who’s ever empathized with a table.
I don’t think that’s true. Any neurotypical person who has a decent level of empathy, should have experiences where they felt pain when another person got hurt.
It sounds like this is just turning into a semantic argument about the definition of the word ‘pain.’ You know how you feel when you see someone else get a paper cut on their finger? That’s not the kind of experience that I’m talking about. You know how your finger feels when you get a paper cut? That’s the kind of experience that I’m talking about. You know how you feel when you trip and you’re on your way to kiss the ground? That’s the kind of anticipation that I’m talking about.
I have not been subjected to the experiment. Even if I were, I would most likely not feel physical pain because only a small selection of subjects did. I do not believe that the terms ‘pain’ and ‘anticipation of pain’ are contestable or capable of being confused with empathy. I’m tapping out because I don’t believe that this conversation is productive.
While not having done this experiment in particular I do have experience in distinguishing a lot of the relevant qualia and what mimikry does for emotional transfer.
In a study they got 31⁄108 to feel pain when seeing images/clips.
The sensations they felt were most often described as “tingling”, followed by “aching”. Other descriptions included “sharp”, “shooting”, “throbbing”, “stabbing” and “tender”. The pain was described as lasting for “a few seconds”, “fleeting”, or “for a split second as soon as the picture appeared.”
That’s a simple picture without any rapport building and more than the 20% in study you cited report feeling pain.
I thought that it would be prudent to include here what I said to undermind:
I don’t think that this is a case of empathy because, as I mentioned in my conversation with him below, some subjects reported mistaking the rubber hand for their ‘real’ hand:
Some subjects reported that the illusion was so convincing that they found themselves wondering why their hand was so white or how they had bruised their hand (there was a small ink smudge on the fake hand).
Some subjects also withdraw their ‘real’ hand from the experimenter as if it were at risk of injury:
[D]uring pilot work many subjects behaved as if they anticipated pain when the rubber finger was bent back: they laughed nervously, widely opened their eyes, flinched, and even pulled their real hand away from the experimenter (sufficient instruction prevented subject noise and movement during the experiments reported here).
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They get the effect by having a stimulus applied at the same time to both hands. If the real hand moves the fake hand moves as well in the same way. That’s how you create rapport. If two people are in strong rapport and you hurt one of them, the other also feels hurt.
I don’t think that’s true. Any neurotypical person who has a decent level of empathy, should have experiences where they felt pain when another person got hurt.
I did. I also tried putting a less-than sign on each line as suggested elsewhere. I don’t know what’s going on with that.
This is too vague for me to make heads or tails of it, but in any event, some subjects actually mistook the rubber hand for their real hand. I also said that some subjects felt physical pain. This is not a matter of empathizing with the pain of something else. And we’re talking about a table. I don’t know anyone who’s ever empathized with a table.
It sounds like this is just turning into a semantic argument about the definition of the word ‘pain.’ You know how you feel when you see someone else get a paper cut on their finger? That’s not the kind of experience that I’m talking about. You know how your finger feels when you get a paper cut? That’s the kind of experience that I’m talking about. You know how you feel when you trip and you’re on your way to kiss the ground? That’s the kind of anticipation that I’m talking about.
Do you actually have experience with this experiment and what it feels like or does your information come from the paper?
I have not been subjected to the experiment. Even if I were, I would most likely not feel physical pain because only a small selection of subjects did. I do not believe that the terms ‘pain’ and ‘anticipation of pain’ are contestable or capable of being confused with empathy. I’m tapping out because I don’t believe that this conversation is productive.
While not having done this experiment in particular I do have experience in distinguishing a lot of the relevant qualia and what mimikry does for emotional transfer.
In a study they got 31⁄108 to feel pain when seeing images/clips.
That’s a simple picture without any rapport building and more than the 20% in study you cited report feeling pain.
I thought that it would be prudent to include here what I said to undermind: