I’m now more sure you’re riding a hobby-horse. I’d better explain why.
Well, speaking empirically, the phrase “race is a social construct” is pretty often followed by “therefore all races are the same in all important ways”. [...]
It’s not that it is a personal hobby-horse, it’s just that I have some experience in watching similar conversations develop.
Me too. Which is probably why I had a hunch that, from the start, you pattern matched Elund to the kind of person who says things like “all races are the same in all important ways” — because you’d observed such people before — in spite of Elund not having said that. That hunch now seems to be confirmed.
That pattern matching would make sense to me if, say, in the context of an argument about race & IQ, Elund had started insisting “race is socially constructed so racial IQ differences can’t exist haha I win!” as a desperate gimmick to shut down the argument. But the context wasn’t a fraught debate like that; Elund’s “Race is a social construct anyway” was an aside to explain why they were content with someone treating “mixed race” or “Hispanic” as racial categories, which doesn’t sound like a mind-killed person invoking “uh uh uh it’s a social construct!” to evade an argument.
So the way you responded to Elund (asking a pointed but not especially relevant question about what doctors think; intimating that Elund was doing an intellectually dishonest post-modernist two-step; asking a question which falsely implied Elund said race wasn’t a useful concept; and dragging IQ (hitherto unmentioned) into the conversation) didn’t seem consistent with a dispassionate correction. It looked a lot more like taking a hobby-horse out for a canter. Reviewing the argument, I’m not sure I could come up with any empirical question about race where the two of you would disagree on the answer!
Mea culpa, though I find pattern matching to be a useful tool. The reason that it’s useful is that it often works—though not always, of course.
The whole argument in this subthread wasn’t particularly focused—one notable diversion was into the meaning of “socially constructed” which Elund seems to understand very widely.
intimating that Elund was doing an intellectually dishonest post-modernist two-step
No, I don’t think I went this far—I didn’t and I don’t believe Elund showed any intellectual dishonesty.
didn’t seem consistent with a dispassionate correction
Oh, but I lay no claim to being a dispassionate corrector :-D I have preferences, tastes, opinions, aesthetics, etc. all of which colour my posts and affect my responses. I am not even above—oh, horrors! -- periodically doing things purely for their amusement value.
Mea culpa, though I find pattern matching to be a useful tool. The reason that it’s useful is that it often works—though not always, of course.
Yeah, had the pattern match been correct I would’ve said nothing.
intimating that Elund was doing an intellectually dishonest post-modernist two-step
No, I don’t think I went this far—I didn’t and I don’t believe Elund showed any intellectual dishonesty.
I’m glad to hear that. (I continue to think your comment would’ve planted the idea in some readers’ heads, regardless of intent, but since I’ve made my view clear and you indicate a lack of intent on your part, I’ll just agree to disagree.)
Oh, but I lay no claim to being a dispassionate corrector :-D
I’ve noticed!
I have preferences, tastes, opinions, aesthetics, etc. all of which colour my posts and affect my responses.
You’re entitled to those. I’m entitled to highlight when they’re fuelling a dubious argument.
I’m now more sure you’re riding a hobby-horse. I’d better explain why.
Me too. Which is probably why I had a hunch that, from the start, you pattern matched Elund to the kind of person who says things like “all races are the same in all important ways” — because you’d observed such people before — in spite of Elund not having said that. That hunch now seems to be confirmed.
That pattern matching would make sense to me if, say, in the context of an argument about race & IQ, Elund had started insisting “race is socially constructed so racial IQ differences can’t exist haha I win!” as a desperate gimmick to shut down the argument. But the context wasn’t a fraught debate like that; Elund’s “Race is a social construct anyway” was an aside to explain why they were content with someone treating “mixed race” or “Hispanic” as racial categories, which doesn’t sound like a mind-killed person invoking “uh uh uh it’s a social construct!” to evade an argument.
So the way you responded to Elund (asking a pointed but not especially relevant question about what doctors think; intimating that Elund was doing an intellectually dishonest post-modernist two-step; asking a question which falsely implied Elund said race wasn’t a useful concept; and dragging IQ (hitherto unmentioned) into the conversation) didn’t seem consistent with a dispassionate correction. It looked a lot more like taking a hobby-horse out for a canter. Reviewing the argument, I’m not sure I could come up with any empirical question about race where the two of you would disagree on the answer!
Mea culpa, though I find pattern matching to be a useful tool. The reason that it’s useful is that it often works—though not always, of course.
The whole argument in this subthread wasn’t particularly focused—one notable diversion was into the meaning of “socially constructed” which Elund seems to understand very widely.
No, I don’t think I went this far—I didn’t and I don’t believe Elund showed any intellectual dishonesty.
Oh, but I lay no claim to being a dispassionate corrector :-D I have preferences, tastes, opinions, aesthetics, etc. all of which colour my posts and affect my responses. I am not even above—oh, horrors! -- periodically doing things purely for their amusement value.
Yeah, had the pattern match been correct I would’ve said nothing.
I’m glad to hear that. (I continue to think your comment would’ve planted the idea in some readers’ heads, regardless of intent, but since I’ve made my view clear and you indicate a lack of intent on your part, I’ll just agree to disagree.)
I’ve noticed!
You’re entitled to those. I’m entitled to highlight when they’re fuelling a dubious argument.