Upvoted for making an interesting general point. Downvoted for cartoonish history that reads like it’s about some weird parallel universe. (A point by point criticism would require a comment of almost the same length, but if someone seriously disputes my claim, I can list half a dozen or so particularly bizarre claims.)
The Roman Empire reached its maximum extent under Trajan circa 100AD. (And even that was a fairly small increase relative to a century earlier under Augustus.) Signs of crisis started appearing only towards the end of the 2nd century, and Christianity started being officially tolerated only in the early 4th century. How these centuries of non-expansion before Christianity entered the political stage can be reconciled with the theory from the article is beyond me.
There is clear evidence that the fall of the Roman empire occasioned a huge fall in living standards throughout the former Empire, including its provinces that it supposedly only pillaged and exploited. (See The Fall of Rome and the End of Civilization by Bryan Ward-Perkins for a good recent overview.)
Ascribing the decline in masculinity to some mysterious “reprogramming” that is narrated in passive voice strikes as me as bizarrely incoherent.
Large cities are not a modern invention. In the largest cities of the ancient world, enormous numbers of men (certainly on the order of hundreds of thousands) lived packed together much more tightly than in modern cities. How did the states ruling these cities handle that situation, if the mysterious “reprogramming” occurred only in the last few centuries?
In the antebellum U.S., the South was not fighting to implement federal tariffs, but opposing them bitterly.
Cotton picking wasn’t widely automated until the mid-20th century. How long slavery would have remained profitable without abolition is a difficult question, but in 1861, “mechanical reapers.. mak[ing] slavery uneconomical” were still firmly in the realm of science fiction.
If the reason for the lack of interest in slaves in the North was their short growing season, then the ongoing industrialization should have changed that. Factories can utilize labor profitably 365 days a year. So clearly other factors were more important.
Many religions are highly reflective, debating what actions adherents should follow to achieve ethical ideals and reach a moral state of being. Zen Buddhism debates paths to enlightenment for universal understanding and emotional control. Judaism debates ways of giving Tzedakah to best provide immediate relief, encourage self improvement, and minimize shame. Hinduism debates various moral causes and their karmic effects. Examining any of these highly reflective religions would at least address the hypothesis that “reflection does not change values.”
Christianity debates the divinity of Jesus’ body, whether the material universe is fundamentally evil, and whether the Son of God is subordinate to God. The “ultimate shortcut” is a boon for recruitment, but has prevented any moral self-reflection. When your religion is stuck deciding whether or not the things you do to yourself and others impact your morality, you don’t even have a framework to be reflective. Catholicism votes yes (what other belief system has to even spell that out?), but defines morality largely through avoiding and confessing to specific immoral behaviors, rather than debating different ways to achieve broader values.
While we could contrast major religions and debate the impact of their reflective traditions, examining Christianity actually provides a very controlled environment to consider the hypothesis. Because it is naturally devoid of (and in many ways hostile to) reflection on its general social utility, we can contrast Christian life before and after the U.S. Constitution curtailed religious morality and established a highly reflective governing process for civic morality. The ethical and moral progress we’ve made since then—suffrage, emancipation, health, and quality of life - is clear on its face when we don’t try to cherry-pick examples.
Upvoted for making an interesting general point. Downvoted for cartoonish history that reads like it’s about some weird parallel universe. (A point by point criticism would require a comment of almost the same length, but if someone seriously disputes my claim, I can list half a dozen or so particularly bizarre claims.)
.
Well, where should I start? A few examples:
The Roman Empire reached its maximum extent under Trajan circa 100AD. (And even that was a fairly small increase relative to a century earlier under Augustus.) Signs of crisis started appearing only towards the end of the 2nd century, and Christianity started being officially tolerated only in the early 4th century. How these centuries of non-expansion before Christianity entered the political stage can be reconciled with the theory from the article is beyond me.
There is clear evidence that the fall of the Roman empire occasioned a huge fall in living standards throughout the former Empire, including its provinces that it supposedly only pillaged and exploited. (See The Fall of Rome and the End of Civilization by Bryan Ward-Perkins for a good recent overview.)
Ascribing the decline in masculinity to some mysterious “reprogramming” that is narrated in passive voice strikes as me as bizarrely incoherent.
Large cities are not a modern invention. In the largest cities of the ancient world, enormous numbers of men (certainly on the order of hundreds of thousands) lived packed together much more tightly than in modern cities. How did the states ruling these cities handle that situation, if the mysterious “reprogramming” occurred only in the last few centuries?
In the antebellum U.S., the South was not fighting to implement federal tariffs, but opposing them bitterly.
Cotton picking wasn’t widely automated until the mid-20th century. How long slavery would have remained profitable without abolition is a difficult question, but in 1861, “mechanical reapers.. mak[ing] slavery uneconomical” were still firmly in the realm of science fiction.
If the reason for the lack of interest in slaves in the North was their short growing season, then the ongoing industrialization should have changed that. Factories can utilize labor profitably 365 days a year. So clearly other factors were more important.
Monty Python:What have the Romans ever done for us
:)
I seriously dispute your claim.
Please see my reply to Gabriel Duquette below.
This came off as Meta-Contrarian Intellectual Hipster to me.
Many religions are highly reflective, debating what actions adherents should follow to achieve ethical ideals and reach a moral state of being. Zen Buddhism debates paths to enlightenment for universal understanding and emotional control. Judaism debates ways of giving Tzedakah to best provide immediate relief, encourage self improvement, and minimize shame. Hinduism debates various moral causes and their karmic effects. Examining any of these highly reflective religions would at least address the hypothesis that “reflection does not change values.”
Christianity debates the divinity of Jesus’ body, whether the material universe is fundamentally evil, and whether the Son of God is subordinate to God. The “ultimate shortcut” is a boon for recruitment, but has prevented any moral self-reflection. When your religion is stuck deciding whether or not the things you do to yourself and others impact your morality, you don’t even have a framework to be reflective. Catholicism votes yes (what other belief system has to even spell that out?), but defines morality largely through avoiding and confessing to specific immoral behaviors, rather than debating different ways to achieve broader values.
While we could contrast major religions and debate the impact of their reflective traditions, examining Christianity actually provides a very controlled environment to consider the hypothesis. Because it is naturally devoid of (and in many ways hostile to) reflection on its general social utility, we can contrast Christian life before and after the U.S. Constitution curtailed religious morality and established a highly reflective governing process for civic morality. The ethical and moral progress we’ve made since then—suffrage, emancipation, health, and quality of life - is clear on its face when we don’t try to cherry-pick examples.
How this all relates to the comment you are replying to?