You seem to be following my every comment. I hope you hold no bias against me, as that would not lead to a productive discussion. I don’t understand the point of your comment, what exactly are you trying to express? Is it perhaps my articulation and word choice? Language and words are a bit more complicated than a definition, sometimes you understand through context. This comment isn’t a science, by public I meant out in the open not anonymously on a small online forum.
No I haven’t, I just click through comments on posts that interest me.
What I’m confused about is what you mean by “they wouldn’t dare express it in public”. There are entire communities and subcultures built around conspiracy theories on the web, whether it’s 9/11, Holocaust denial, moon landing or flat earth. How much more public can it get?
I was talking for the average person, of course those groups exist but it doesn’t mean everyone is comfortable stating the obvious in public. Western culture is sensitive about world war 2. Look at Japan you can go over there and mention the bombs and their war crimes and most won’t care. We see this in comparing how the west vs east censor media such as games and movies. The ideas are public but most people are not willing to state them and risk their social lives.
Look at Japan you can go over there and mention the bombs and their war crimes and most won’t care.
I really don’t think picking out the most conservative and conformist country on the planet supports your point very well. Of course they don’t care, denying their past war crimes is the official position. Meanwhile in the US, the evils of Western Imperialism (including recent ones) is standard textbook material. Whether you agree with those textbooks or not, the phrase “history is written by the victors” usually doesn’t imply self-critical writing.
The ideas are public but most people are not willing to state them and risk their social lives.
Or perhaps people are not willing to state them because they don’t agree those ideas? If people are protected by legal rights to free speech and anonymity on the web yet some ideas still can’t gain any traction on the market of ideas, you should start considering the possibility that those ideas aren’t even secretly popular.
There are not many anonymous free speech places left. I only know of one or two and they are constantly under DDOS attack (amongst others) to shut them down. All the major platforms don’t allow contrarian opinions to gather momentum and the mainstream news just ignores what they don’t like. This mass censorship ensures that ‘those ideas’ never have a chance to become popular.
I do not wish to further this discussion since it is off topic and you seem to not understand my point. That said I will give you a small response.
Obviously culture can repress and encourage certain opinions and facts. Just because there is law for free speech doesn’t mean you can say anything you want without repercussions.
Even if you suppose that the U.S. and China would want to censor the same types of things (past embarrassing things), there can exist different levels of censorship (and openness). The fact the U.S. talks about some past misdeeds does not mean 1) that it talks about current misdeeds, or 2) there are other past misdeeds it doesn’t talk about.
Establishing more specific examples would require more discussion—what do you mean by “Western imperialism”? Particularly, recently?
Sorry, It should be what they censor. A good example is the game Fallout 3, the American company that created it decided to censor a quest relating to the use of nuclear weapons just for the Japanese version. Funny enough, Japanese gamers complained that the quest was removed and they moded it back in. More examples of censored content in western games: the swastika in Battlefield 5 and Hitler’s moustache in Wolfenstein. Some things are allowed in 1 country and others aren’t , clearly we are more sensitive about that part of history.
Yet you dare expressing it on LessWrong? What’s “in public” then? Soap box on the street?
You seem to be following my every comment. I hope you hold no bias against me, as that would not lead to a productive discussion. I don’t understand the point of your comment, what exactly are you trying to express? Is it perhaps my articulation and word choice? Language and words are a bit more complicated than a definition, sometimes you understand through context. This comment isn’t a science, by public I meant out in the open not anonymously on a small online forum.
No I haven’t, I just click through comments on posts that interest me.
What I’m confused about is what you mean by “they wouldn’t dare express it in public”. There are entire communities and subcultures built around conspiracy theories on the web, whether it’s 9/11, Holocaust denial, moon landing or flat earth. How much more public can it get?
I was talking for the average person, of course those groups exist but it doesn’t mean everyone is comfortable stating the obvious in public. Western culture is sensitive about world war 2. Look at Japan you can go over there and mention the bombs and their war crimes and most won’t care. We see this in comparing how the west vs east censor media such as games and movies. The ideas are public but most people are not willing to state them and risk their social lives.
I really don’t think picking out the most conservative and conformist country on the planet supports your point very well. Of course they don’t care, denying their past war crimes is the official position. Meanwhile in the US, the evils of Western Imperialism (including recent ones) is standard textbook material. Whether you agree with those textbooks or not, the phrase “history is written by the victors” usually doesn’t imply self-critical writing.
Or perhaps people are not willing to state them because they don’t agree those ideas? If people are protected by legal rights to free speech and anonymity on the web yet some ideas still can’t gain any traction on the market of ideas, you should start considering the possibility that those ideas aren’t even secretly popular.
There are not many anonymous free speech places left. I only know of one or two and they are constantly under DDOS attack (amongst others) to shut them down. All the major platforms don’t allow contrarian opinions to gather momentum and the mainstream news just ignores what they don’t like. This mass censorship ensures that ‘those ideas’ never have a chance to become popular.
I was going to bring up Red Ice TV as a counter-example but just found out they got banned from Youtube 2 weeks ago. Troubling indeed.
I do not wish to further this discussion since it is off topic and you seem to not understand my point. That said I will give you a small response.
Obviously culture can repress and encourage certain opinions and facts. Just because there is law for free speech doesn’t mean you can say anything you want without repercussions.
Even if you suppose that the U.S. and China would want to censor the same types of things (past embarrassing things), there can exist different levels of censorship (and openness). The fact the U.S. talks about some past misdeeds does not mean 1) that it talks about current misdeeds, or 2) there are other past misdeeds it doesn’t talk about.
Establishing more specific examples would require more discussion—what do you mean by “Western imperialism”? Particularly, recently?
Except when it’s written by the losers.
How do they differ?
Sorry, It should be what they censor. A good example is the game Fallout 3, the American company that created it decided to censor a quest relating to the use of nuclear weapons just for the Japanese version. Funny enough, Japanese gamers complained that the quest was removed and they moded it back in. More examples of censored content in western games: the swastika in Battlefield 5 and Hitler’s moustache in Wolfenstein. Some things are allowed in 1 country and others aren’t , clearly we are more sensitive about that part of history.