“Would have pusshed him out of the way with own magic, fool boy!”
Under what magic system can you push someone out of the way with magic that you can’t also just cast sleep on them? He could always cast ghetto sleep, i.e. quickly accelerating the guys head into a solid object.
Is there some reason I’m not seeing that Quirrell needs to make him submit in a non-magical way?
Nope, Quirrell is obviously lying to Harry; he really did intent to kill the guy. Seriously, cast a spell at close range and then push the target out of the way? That’s absurd; not only is telekinesis almost certainly much too slow for that, it would be a stupid thing to do even if it worked.
Okay that makes a bit more sense. Occlumency seems odd (like animagus) in that it still works when you are unconscious, I was assuming other more active types of mental defence,
It still strikes me as an odd tactic, though.
If I was trying to dominate someone I would knock them out, strip them, restrain them, gag them. Then wake them up. Make them powerless, not engage in an elaborate duel where they still have the agency to dodge and defend and may nurture the flame of hope of a lucky strike.
Under what magic system can you push someone out of the way with magic that you can’t also just cast sleep on them?
One where the defenses have to be matched to the attacks—i.e., the one that is clearly in effect at the time of the duel. ;-)
If wizard duels were strictly about relative power rather than strategy, nobody would ever duel someone at or above their own power level. Ergo, strategy and skill are involved, and as illustrated part of that skill is reaction time and choice of blocking spells. While Bahry is dodging the AK, he may not be shielding against something that gives him a little nudge or increases his speed, or changes his relative time perception, or something else that gives him an edge at dodging.
IOW, it’s unlikely he has any shields up against people helping him. That may actually be quite important in a magical world where intent actually matters. ;-)
While Bahry is dodging the AK, he may not be shielding against something that gives him a little nudge or increases his speed, or changes his relative time perception, or something else that gives him an edge at dodging.
But Quirrell specifies pushing. Pushing is something that should always be guarded against else it can muck up your spell casting gestures.
Eta: Shields against nudges/telekinesis is the only kind of shield useful for AK, so you can’t be held in place, so I would expect him to have them up then, if he ever has them up.
IOW, it’s unlikely he has any shields up against people helping him.
Shields that can tell whether something is helpful or harmful (telekinesis can be either)? Blegh. I don’t like those types of systems. I don’t remember other things that can tell intent apart from artifact level spells.
I’d expect shields to be like firewalls and allow allies to cast spells through or certain classes of spells (such as healing) to solve that problem.
Otherwise it is getting close to being intelligent! Harry will have to start worrying about stopping casting some shields in case they are sentient.
Otherwise it is getting close to being intelligent! Harry will have to start worrying about stopping casting some shields in case they are sentient.
My opinion is that this is exactly where the story is going. Harry will eventually conclude that magic must be intelligent to do what it’s doing. (The best outcome, from Harry’s perspective, would be a single AI consciousness that merely fakes the sapience of snakes, the Sorting Hat, etc, so no harm done. A better outcome, for us readers, would be Harry’s sudden realisation, almost too late, that his research into the fundamentals magic is causing an exponential explosion in the number of tortured sophonts.)
What makes me doubt is this:
Under what magic system can you push someone out of the way with magic that you can’t also just cast sleep on them? He could always cast ghetto sleep, i.e. quickly accelerating the guys head into a solid object.
Is there some reason I’m not seeing that Quirrell needs to make him submit in a non-magical way?
Nope, Quirrell is obviously lying to Harry; he really did intent to kill the guy. Seriously, cast a spell at close range and then push the target out of the way? That’s absurd; not only is telekinesis almost certainly much too slow for that, it would be a stupid thing to do even if it worked.
Quirrell’s stated reason is that he wants Bahry to take down his Occlumency barrier.
Okay that makes a bit more sense. Occlumency seems odd (like animagus) in that it still works when you are unconscious, I was assuming other more active types of mental defence,
It still strikes me as an odd tactic, though.
If I was trying to dominate someone I would knock them out, strip them, restrain them, gag them. Then wake them up. Make them powerless, not engage in an elaborate duel where they still have the agency to dodge and defend and may nurture the flame of hope of a lucky strike.
I...imagine you can’t read the mind of any sleeping person.
One where the defenses have to be matched to the attacks—i.e., the one that is clearly in effect at the time of the duel. ;-)
If wizard duels were strictly about relative power rather than strategy, nobody would ever duel someone at or above their own power level. Ergo, strategy and skill are involved, and as illustrated part of that skill is reaction time and choice of blocking spells. While Bahry is dodging the AK, he may not be shielding against something that gives him a little nudge or increases his speed, or changes his relative time perception, or something else that gives him an edge at dodging.
IOW, it’s unlikely he has any shields up against people helping him. That may actually be quite important in a magical world where intent actually matters. ;-)
But Quirrell specifies pushing. Pushing is something that should always be guarded against else it can muck up your spell casting gestures.
Eta: Shields against nudges/telekinesis is the only kind of shield useful for AK, so you can’t be held in place, so I would expect him to have them up then, if he ever has them up.
Shields that can tell whether something is helpful or harmful (telekinesis can be either)? Blegh. I don’t like those types of systems. I don’t remember other things that can tell intent apart from artifact level spells.
I’d expect shields to be like firewalls and allow allies to cast spells through or certain classes of spells (such as healing) to solve that problem.
Otherwise it is getting close to being intelligent! Harry will have to start worrying about stopping casting some shields in case they are sentient.
My opinion is that this is exactly where the story is going. Harry will eventually conclude that magic must be intelligent to do what it’s doing. (The best outcome, from Harry’s perspective, would be a single AI consciousness that merely fakes the sapience of snakes, the Sorting Hat, etc, so no harm done. A better outcome, for us readers, would be Harry’s sudden realisation, almost too late, that his research into the fundamentals magic is causing an exponential explosion in the number of tortured sophonts.)