Since to you the ends justify the means, why should we accept that your ends are EA ends? You might well be lying about it and by your set of criteria that’s fine.
Let’s consider the hypothesis that what you want is money and social status. These ends would justify the means of setting up an “EA” charity and collecting donations from gullible people, wouldn’t they? It’s just what you believe to be an effective method of reaching your goals. Since things like integrity and honesty are subservient to reaching your goals, there is no problem here, is there?
To figure out the truth, we must not punish people for advocating a position, or we might end up in a situation where everyone sees a taboo truth and is afraid to speak it.
That someone advocates lying is evidence that they would lie and should be excluded. Now take that evidence and throw it out the window, because we need to figure out whether lying is actually the right thing to do, and for that we need to listen to all the sides. In fact, Gleb should be rewarded as compensation for the subconscious trust of his peers that he sacrificed to help this discussion.
This is wholly irrelevant, because we’ve already caught Gleb lying many times. His comment sacrifices nothing, and in fact he’s likely posting it to excuse his crimes (the smart money says he’s lying about something in the process).
Your point does apply to the OP trying to smear her first example for practicing radical honesty. This is one of the points I tried to make earlier.
Then it’s a question whether this speech is efficient or not, not if lying is or is not? Everyone involved should be focused on effective actions with a positive expected value. I’m not very well read in this area. But if I understand correctly, the end justifies the means but it might be an inefficient action to say it publicly? Thus some other people might react to it because it is an effective action to do so.
I have plenty of social status, and sufficient money, as a professor. I don’t need any more personally. In fact, I’ve donated about $38K to charity over the last 2 years. My goal is EA ends. You can choose to believe me or not :-)
Why should anyone believe you?
Since to you the ends justify the means, why should we accept that your ends are EA ends? You might well be lying about it and by your set of criteria that’s fine.
Let’s consider the hypothesis that what you want is money and social status. These ends would justify the means of setting up an “EA” charity and collecting donations from gullible people, wouldn’t they? It’s just what you believe to be an effective method of reaching your goals. Since things like integrity and honesty are subservient to reaching your goals, there is no problem here, is there?
To figure out the truth, we must not punish people for advocating a position, or we might end up in a situation where everyone sees a taboo truth and is afraid to speak it.
That someone advocates lying is evidence that they would lie and should be excluded. Now take that evidence and throw it out the window, because we need to figure out whether lying is actually the right thing to do, and for that we need to listen to all the sides. In fact, Gleb should be rewarded as compensation for the
subconscioustrust of his peers that he sacrificed to help this discussion.This is wholly irrelevant, because we’ve already caught Gleb lying many times. His comment sacrifices nothing, and in fact he’s likely posting it to excuse his crimes (the smart money says he’s lying about something in the process).
Your point does apply to the OP trying to smear her first example for practicing radical honesty. This is one of the points I tried to make earlier.
I don’t think anyone here is in position to “punish” Gleb.
However speech has consequences. In particular, consequences with respect to reputation, credibility, and trust. This is as it should be.
Then it’s a question whether this speech is efficient or not, not if lying is or is not? Everyone involved should be focused on effective actions with a positive expected value. I’m not very well read in this area. But if I understand correctly, the end justifies the means but it might be an inefficient action to say it publicly? Thus some other people might react to it because it is an effective action to do so.
I have plenty of social status, and sufficient money, as a professor. I don’t need any more personally. In fact, I’ve donated about $38K to charity over the last 2 years. My goal is EA ends. You can choose to believe me or not :-)