For fun here’s my personal contribution to “yet another proof of the non-existence of God (of the Bible)”, not that really any such “proof” ought to be necessary.
The Bible (and other Arahamic texts) is quite clear that God is both omniscient and omnipotent. But at the same time endowed man with free will (Genesis 2:7-17 - Adam had CHOICE). The problem is that these are irreconcilably contradictory.
Omniscience implies the complete LACK of free will because God already knows everything that will ever happen. In fact, from God’s point of view everything that ever could happen has already happened.
Omnipotence implies that even if God lacked omniscience, somehow intrinsically, he could grant omniscience to himself, after all, he is omnipotent right? If he cannot grant himself omniscience then he is not omnipotent because there are tasks that are beyond even his power! At the same time he would also not be omniscient.
So, either we have free will and God is not omniscient (and therefore flawed because he can be wrong about anything → i.e. not know the outcome of any decision he makes), or we do not have free will and God has always know everything including every soul that would occupy heaven and hell (including knowing for all eternity that Lucifer would fall) → i.e. your illusion of making choices is irrelevant—your final disposition has always been known—and he made it that way. All that we know is some expression of some ultimately constant “reality”. God can play such a reality out along any parameter he wants and the path through is “reality” simulation would always be the same.
Furthermore, God being omnipotent is beyond time: our soul has already been basking in heaven or burning in hell for eternity already (for our notions of time simply do not apply to such a being), the mere illusion of your life is ultimately irrelevant. If God is not beyond time then he is bound by our limits of seeing into the future, again implying that he is both NOT omniscient and NOT omnipotent.
Free will implies the God of the Bible does not exist. Q.E.D. -OR-
All of it doesn’t matter in the slightest.
Omniscience implies the complete LACK of free will because God already knows everything that will ever happen. In fact, from God’s point of view everything that ever could happen has already happened
I am sorry I do not understand how Omniscience implies lack of free will, can you explain?
“your illusion of making choices is irrelevant—your final disposition has always been known—and he made it that way.”
I think this is where the trouble is. Just because God knows the outcome doesn’t mean he made it that way. For example, if you’ve known a friend for an extremely long time, and he has never chosen A over B, you can be reasonably sure he’ll pick A. That doesn’t he has no choice. God is just someone who has infinite knowledge of you. He knows what you will end up doing, but you still have to carry it out and make the choice yourself. It really just depends on how you define “free will” and “choice”.
For fun here’s my personal contribution to “yet another proof of the non-existence of God (of the Bible)”, not that really any such “proof” ought to be necessary.
The Bible (and other Arahamic texts) is quite clear that God is both omniscient and omnipotent. But at the same time endowed man with free will (Genesis 2:7-17 - Adam had CHOICE). The problem is that these are irreconcilably contradictory.
Omniscience implies the complete LACK of free will because God already knows everything that will ever happen. In fact, from God’s point of view everything that ever could happen has already happened.
Omnipotence implies that even if God lacked omniscience, somehow intrinsically, he could grant omniscience to himself, after all, he is omnipotent right? If he cannot grant himself omniscience then he is not omnipotent because there are tasks that are beyond even his power! At the same time he would also not be omniscient.
So, either we have free will and God is not omniscient (and therefore flawed because he can be wrong about anything → i.e. not know the outcome of any decision he makes), or we do not have free will and God has always know everything including every soul that would occupy heaven and hell (including knowing for all eternity that Lucifer would fall) → i.e. your illusion of making choices is irrelevant—your final disposition has always been known—and he made it that way. All that we know is some expression of some ultimately constant “reality”. God can play such a reality out along any parameter he wants and the path through is “reality” simulation would always be the same.
Furthermore, God being omnipotent is beyond time: our soul has already been basking in heaven or burning in hell for eternity already (for our notions of time simply do not apply to such a being), the mere illusion of your life is ultimately irrelevant. If God is not beyond time then he is bound by our limits of seeing into the future, again implying that he is both NOT omniscient and NOT omnipotent.
Free will implies the God of the Bible does not exist. Q.E.D. -OR- All of it doesn’t matter in the slightest.
I am sorry I do not understand how Omniscience implies lack of free will, can you explain?
Yes, but omniscience added with omnipotence implies predestination.
“your illusion of making choices is irrelevant—your final disposition has always been known—and he made it that way.”
I think this is where the trouble is. Just because God knows the outcome doesn’t mean he made it that way. For example, if you’ve known a friend for an extremely long time, and he has never chosen A over B, you can be reasonably sure he’ll pick A. That doesn’t he has no choice. God is just someone who has infinite knowledge of you. He knows what you will end up doing, but you still have to carry it out and make the choice yourself. It really just depends on how you define “free will” and “choice”.