The partnership is to begin immediately with the final terms being agreed in the coming weeks. This will allow for rapid vaccination around the world if the COVID-19 vaccine candidate proves to be effective. The vaccine candidate was developed by the University’s Jenner Institute who began trials in humans last week jointly with the University’s Oxford Vaccine Group.
.… AstraZeneca will work with global partners on the international distribution of the vaccine, particularly working to make it available and accessible for low and medium income countries.
.…
Both partners have agreed to operate on a not-for-profit basis for the duration of the coronavirus pandemic, with only the costs of production and distribution being covered.
I would be more confident in AstraZeneca prioritizing the project if they would look forward to making billions of dollars of profit with the project instead of them seeing it as being about PR.
It also sets very bad incentives for people who invest in pandemic preparedness when they can’t make profits on their work. The fact that the big pharma companies didn’t predict in advance that being well-prepared to provide a working vaccine for a pandemic like this is a reason why had too little investment into pandemic preparedness in the last years besides.
You incentive people to build products that are useful in potential pandemics by allowing them to make profits when the pandemic happens and the products turn out to be useful.
I would much rather hear AstraZeneca say: “We will invest all profits made into building up factories to provide vaccines for the future and do research on parademic preparedness because we didn’t invest enough resources into the area in the last years.”
Basing this response just on this exchange and information provide here.
I’m not sure one can say AZ is not setting up with profits in mind nor is it clear to me their expectations on total profit would be lower they way they are versus the suggestion made about reinvesting profits. How do we go about making that assessment and comparison since I don’t think one can simply pick a side and claim victory.
One way of looking at the current, temporary “non-profit” approach could be seen as an investment in a customer base that will be there when the factories are build and provide a good demand volume to support the factory output at levels that provide greater profits. If they seek profits now, but promise to invest in the factories (which they are going to do anyhow) they are both competing for customers today and tomorrow. Trying to establish a loyal customer base now at the start of things doesn’t seem like a profit minimizing strategy to me.
My reaction would be that a vaccine should be made for profit; if there are people who can’t afford it there should be a charity to buy the vaccine for them.
Re fraud, etc.: Money doesn’t *force* people to be honest. Nothing can do that. But it is much easier to fudge things that can’t be quantified.
My reaction would be that a vaccine should be made for profit; if there are people who can’t afford it there should be a charity to buy the vaccine for them.
Pay careful attention to this formulation. Note the phrase:
there should be
What does that mean, precisely?
When we speak of whether a vaccine should be made for profit or not, we are, implicitly, speaking from the perspective of decision-makers who are in a position to decide whether a vaccine will be made on a for-profit or a non-profit basis. This may be some level of government (which may choose to contract to get a vaccine made, then distribute it to members of the public—or, may elect not to do so, and leave the matter to the vaccine manufacturers to decide), or it may be a corporation (which may manufacture the vaccine and then choose to make it available for free, instead of selling it).
Now, from the standpoint of those decision-makers, what does it mean to say that the vaccine should be for-profit but that “there should be” a charity to buy the vaccine for those who need it? It could only mean one of two things:
We—i.e., by construction, that decision-making organization—having chosen to sell the vaccine for a profit, will now also spin off a charity whose purpose will be to make the vaccine available on a non-profit basis.
We will sell the vaccine at a profit. Perhaps someone else will found a charity which will purchase our vaccine and make it available on a non-profit basis. Or, perhaps not. Either way, we will merely sell it and make a profit.
And note that option #1 is no different from “make the vaccine on a non-profit basis” in the first place, whereas option #2 is simply a shrug—a refusal to accept any responsibility for the problem of people who can’t afford the vaccine.
Either way, you have not answered leggi’s question/challenge, but evaded it.
We already have the situation that normal vaccines are sold for prices to make a profit to developed countries and then sold for lesser prices to organizations that give out the vaccines to the the of the world.
That’s the established model that works for giving everybody access and the involved companies a way to pay for the vaccine development.
It doesn’t get them to pay for a lot of vaccine factories and as a result we don’t have enough vaccine factories at the moment but I would still call the model for-profit.
A vaccine for coronavirus could be for profit. Should it be? What would be the overall effects (advantages?) of:
having a vaccination that is sold for profit.
compared to:
a vaccine that is available on a not for profit basis.
- - -- ---
Does it? Fraud. Tax returns …
If a vaccine is sold for profit that incentives companies to put more money into vaccine research and building up production capacity.
I was specifically asking about a vaccine for coronavirus. (I should have said covid19)
The potential profits from such a vaccine could be massive.
Weigh that against the effects of giving the world’s population some sort of immunity.
If this vaccine is shown to be effective, the first round of vaccinations will be available at cost from Oxford University and AstraZeneca.:
Landmark partnership announced for development of COVID-19 vaccine
I would be more confident in AstraZeneca prioritizing the project if they would look forward to making billions of dollars of profit with the project instead of them seeing it as being about PR.
It also sets very bad incentives for people who invest in pandemic preparedness when they can’t make profits on their work. The fact that the big pharma companies didn’t predict in advance that being well-prepared to provide a working vaccine for a pandemic like this is a reason why had too little investment into pandemic preparedness in the last years besides.
You incentive people to build products that are useful in potential pandemics by allowing them to make profits when the pandemic happens and the products turn out to be useful.
I would much rather hear AstraZeneca say: “We will invest all profits made into building up factories to provide vaccines for the future and do research on parademic preparedness because we didn’t invest enough resources into the area in the last years.”
Basing this response just on this exchange and information provide here.
I’m not sure one can say AZ is not setting up with profits in mind nor is it clear to me their expectations on total profit would be lower they way they are versus the suggestion made about reinvesting profits. How do we go about making that assessment and comparison since I don’t think one can simply pick a side and claim victory.
One way of looking at the current, temporary “non-profit” approach could be seen as an investment in a customer base that will be there when the factories are build and provide a good demand volume to support the factory output at levels that provide greater profits. If they seek profits now, but promise to invest in the factories (which they are going to do anyhow) they are both competing for customers today and tomorrow. Trying to establish a loyal customer base now at the start of things doesn’t seem like a profit minimizing strategy to me.
My reaction would be that a vaccine should be made for profit; if there are people who can’t afford it there should be a charity to buy the vaccine for them.
Re fraud, etc.: Money doesn’t *force* people to be honest. Nothing can do that. But it is much easier to fudge things that can’t be quantified.
Pay careful attention to this formulation. Note the phrase:
What does that mean, precisely?
When we speak of whether a vaccine should be made for profit or not, we are, implicitly, speaking from the perspective of decision-makers who are in a position to decide whether a vaccine will be made on a for-profit or a non-profit basis. This may be some level of government (which may choose to contract to get a vaccine made, then distribute it to members of the public—or, may elect not to do so, and leave the matter to the vaccine manufacturers to decide), or it may be a corporation (which may manufacture the vaccine and then choose to make it available for free, instead of selling it).
Now, from the standpoint of those decision-makers, what does it mean to say that the vaccine should be for-profit but that “there should be” a charity to buy the vaccine for those who need it? It could only mean one of two things:
We—i.e., by construction, that decision-making organization—having chosen to sell the vaccine for a profit, will now also spin off a charity whose purpose will be to make the vaccine available on a non-profit basis.
We will sell the vaccine at a profit. Perhaps someone else will found a charity which will purchase our vaccine and make it available on a non-profit basis. Or, perhaps not. Either way, we will merely sell it and make a profit.
And note that option #1 is no different from “make the vaccine on a non-profit basis” in the first place, whereas option #2 is simply a shrug—a refusal to accept any responsibility for the problem of people who can’t afford the vaccine.
Either way, you have not answered leggi’s question/challenge, but evaded it.
We already have the situation that normal vaccines are sold for prices to make a profit to developed countries and then sold for lesser prices to organizations that give out the vaccines to the the of the world.
That’s the established model that works for giving everybody access and the involved companies a way to pay for the vaccine development.
It doesn’t get them to pay for a lot of vaccine factories and as a result we don’t have enough vaccine factories at the moment but I would still call the model for-profit.