Gotcha. That was a really helpful response, and it makes a lot of sense.
unless the source credibly commits to providing that funding for a significant fraction of your remaining lifetime
What if this happened for you? Suppose you received the funding in a lump sum with no strings attached. Would you prefer that over having the day job? How do you expect it would affect the impact you would have on the world?
What if this happened for you? Suppose you received the funding in a lump sum with no strings attached.
Hmm. Certainly it’d make me feel a bit safer, but I’m not sure if it would change what I actually did in a short-term basis at least. My EA-productivity is limited more by motivational and emotional issues than time, and if I did manage to debug those issues enough that time would become the limiting factor, then I might feel fine asking for short-term funding anyway since I would no longer feel doubtful about my productivity.
I could definitely imagine it being helpful anyway, though I’m sufficiently uncertain about this that I think I’d feel bad about accepting any such offer. :)
Hearing this, it re-opens a line of thought that’s been swimming in the back of my mind for quite some time: that helping EA people with mental health is a pretty high-yielding pursuit. Lots of people (including myself) deal with stuff, I presume. And if you can help such people, you can improve productivity by something like, I don’t know, 10-200%?
But how do you help them? I don’t think I have any great ideas here.
I assume most people have access to a therapist if they wanted one.
Maybe motivation to see a therapist is the problem, not access. But there’s plenty of people talking about and normalizing therapy nowadays, and I’m not sure how fruitful it’d be to continue that process.
Maybe difficulty finding the right therapist is the crux? Especially for rationalist-types who have “weird” issues. Maybe. Maybe expanding and/or branching off of something like the Secular Therapy Project would be worthwhile. Or the SlateStarCodex Psychiat-list.
Maybe we just need better models of how the mind works and how to repair psychiatric pain. But the world of clinical psychology research already has this covered. Right? Maybe, maybe not. It does seem difficult to break into and have a real impact. However, you Kaj seem to me like one of the few people who might have a comparative advantage in pursuing something like that. I’m thinking of your Multiagent Models of Mind sequence. I was really impressed by it. I’m not sure how much of it was actually novel — maybe parts were, maybe not really, I don’t really know — but along the lines of Non-Expert Explanation, I think there’s a good amount of value in framing things differently. And in popularizing worthwhile things! That sequence helped me arrive at a pretty good understanding of my own psychological issues, I think, whereas before that I was pretty lost. The understanding hasn’t translated to actually feeling any better, but that’s n=1 and beside the point. Speaking of which, what is my point? I think it’s just to consider all of this food for thought. I can’t say I’m confident in the broader points I’m making.
Based on a nearly universal sense (reading/personal experience/conversations with doctors) that it’s hard to find an in-network psychiatrist/psychologist who’s will to see a new patient, my prior on this is very low.
>motivation
That would help too. But there’s probably a large set of people who could be helped if the “access” barrier was reduced/removed on its own.
>difficulty?
Agreed for both rationalists and non-rationalists.
>knowing how to fix brains?
Which condition(s) specifically come to mind when you think of something that “clinical psychology research already has...covered”? I was unable to think of one off the top of my head.
Based on a nearly universal sense (reading/personal experience/conversations with doctors) that it’s hard to find an in-network psychiatrist/psychologist who’s will to see a new patient, my prior on this is very low.
Huh, that is very much not the experience I’ve had personally, or that people I’ve spoke with have had. I’ve found that it can be difficult to find a therapist who you like, but to find a therapist who just accepts your insurance and is willing to see you/new patients, I’ve never spoke with someone who has had trouble with that. Context: I’m in America.
Which condition(s) specifically come to mind when you think of something that “clinical psychology research already has...covered”? I was unable to think of one off the top of my head.
Well I’m not sure how well they really do have it covered (hence my saying “Maybe, maybe not.”). I was just thinking about the fact that there is in fact a large group of people working on it, and they seem to have made at least some non-trivial amount of progress. Ie. cognitive behavioral therapy.
Gotcha. That was a really helpful response, and it makes a lot of sense.
What if this happened for you? Suppose you received the funding in a lump sum with no strings attached. Would you prefer that over having the day job? How do you expect it would affect the impact you would have on the world?
Glad it was helpful :)
Hmm. Certainly it’d make me feel a bit safer, but I’m not sure if it would change what I actually did in a short-term basis at least. My EA-productivity is limited more by motivational and emotional issues than time, and if I did manage to debug those issues enough that time would become the limiting factor, then I might feel fine asking for short-term funding anyway since I would no longer feel doubtful about my productivity.
I could definitely imagine it being helpful anyway, though I’m sufficiently uncertain about this that I think I’d feel bad about accepting any such offer. :)
I see. Thanks again for the explanation!
Hearing this, it re-opens a line of thought that’s been swimming in the back of my mind for quite some time: that helping EA people with mental health is a pretty high-yielding pursuit. Lots of people (including myself) deal with stuff, I presume. And if you can help such people, you can improve productivity by something like, I don’t know, 10-200%?
But how do you help them? I don’t think I have any great ideas here.
I assume most people have access to a therapist if they wanted one.
Maybe motivation to see a therapist is the problem, not access. But there’s plenty of people talking about and normalizing therapy nowadays, and I’m not sure how fruitful it’d be to continue that process.
Maybe difficulty finding the right therapist is the crux? Especially for rationalist-types who have “weird” issues. Maybe. Maybe expanding and/or branching off of something like the Secular Therapy Project would be worthwhile. Or the SlateStarCodex Psychiat-list.
Maybe we just need better models of how the mind works and how to repair psychiatric pain. But the world of clinical psychology research already has this covered. Right? Maybe, maybe not. It does seem difficult to break into and have a real impact. However, you Kaj seem to me like one of the few people who might have a comparative advantage in pursuing something like that. I’m thinking of your Multiagent Models of Mind sequence. I was really impressed by it. I’m not sure how much of it was actually novel — maybe parts were, maybe not really, I don’t really know — but along the lines of Non-Expert Explanation, I think there’s a good amount of value in framing things differently. And in popularizing worthwhile things! That sequence helped me arrive at a pretty good understanding of my own psychological issues, I think, whereas before that I was pretty lost. The understanding hasn’t translated to actually feeling any better, but that’s n=1 and beside the point. Speaking of which, what is my point? I think it’s just to consider all of this food for thought. I can’t say I’m confident in the broader points I’m making.
FWIW, my other day job (I have two part-time ones) is related.
Oh, cool!
>access if they wanted one
Based on a nearly universal sense (reading/personal experience/conversations with doctors) that it’s hard to find an in-network psychiatrist/psychologist who’s will to see a new patient, my prior on this is very low.
>motivation
That would help too. But there’s probably a large set of people who could be helped if the “access” barrier was reduced/removed on its own.
>difficulty?
Agreed for both rationalists and non-rationalists.
>knowing how to fix brains?
Which condition(s) specifically come to mind when you think of something that “clinical psychology research already has...covered”? I was unable to think of one off the top of my head.
Huh, that is very much not the experience I’ve had personally, or that people I’ve spoke with have had. I’ve found that it can be difficult to find a therapist who you like, but to find a therapist who just accepts your insurance and is willing to see you/new patients, I’ve never spoke with someone who has had trouble with that. Context: I’m in America.
Well I’m not sure how well they really do have it covered (hence my saying “Maybe, maybe not.”). I was just thinking about the fact that there is in fact a large group of people working on it, and they seem to have made at least some non-trivial amount of progress. Ie. cognitive behavioral therapy.