You can’t have a disposition to act in a certain way without counter-factually acting that way. You can’t counter-factually act a certain way without actually acting that way in a situation indistinguishable form the counter-factual.
What is the relevance of this? Are you using this argument? (See comment above.)*
It is impossible to have the one-boxing disposition and then two-box.
Ought implies can.
Therefore, it is false that someone with a one-boxing disposition ought to two-box.
If that isn’t your argument, what is the force of the quoted text?
At any rate, it seems like a bad argument, since analogous arguments will entail that whenever you have some decisive disposition, it is false that you ought to act differently. (It will entail, for instance, NOT[people who have a decisive loss aversion disposition should follow expected utility theory].)
Notice that an analogous argument also cuts the other way:
It is impossible for someone with the two-boxing disposition to one-box.
Ought implies can.
Therefore, it is false that someone with the two-boxing disposition ought to one box.
*I made a similar comment above, but I don’t know how to link to it. Help appreciated.
Making a decision means discovering your disposition (if we are using that word, we could call it something else if that avoids terminology confusion. What I mean is the non-random element of how you react to a specific input) in respect to a certain action. In a certain sense you are your dispositions, and everything else is just meaningless extras (that is your values, experiences, non-value preferences, reasoning ability etc. collectively form your dispositions and are part of them). Controlling your dispositions is how you control your actions. And your dispositions are what is doing that controlling. Making a choice between A and B doesn’t mean letting disposition a and disposition b fight and pick a winner, it means that preferences vs A and B are the cause for your disposition being what it is. You can change your disposition vs act X in the sense that your disposition vs any X before time t is Y and your disposition for any X after t is Z, but not in the sense that you can change your disposition vs X at time t from Y to Z. Whatever you actually do (modulo randomness) at time t, that’s your one and only disposition vs X at time t.
Assume you prefer red to blue, but more strongly prefer cubes to spheres. When given the choice between a red sphere and a blue cube and only one of them you can’t just pick the red cube. And it’s not the case that you ought to pick the red after you already have the cube, that’s just nonsense. The problem is more than just impossibility.
Whatever you actually do (modulo randomness) at time t, that’s your one and only disposition vs X at time t.
Okay, I understand how you use the word “disposition” now. This is not the way I was using the word, but I don’t think that is relevant to our disagreement. I hereby resolve to use the phrase “disposition to A” in the same way as you for the rest of our conversation.
I still don’t understand how this point suggests that people with one-boxing dispositions ought not to two-box. I can only understand it in one way: as in the argument in my original reply to you. But that argument form leads to this absurd conclusion:
(a) whenever you have a disposition to A and you do A, it is false that you ought to have done something else
In particular, it backfires for the intended argumentative purpose, since it entails that two-boxers shouldn’t one-box.
No, when you have disposition a and do A it may be the case that you ought to have disposition b and do B, perhaps disposition a was formed by habit and disposition b would counter-factually have resulted if the disposition had formed on the basis of likely effects and your preferences. What is false is that you ought to have disposition a and do B.
What is false is that you ought to have disposition a and do B.
OK. So the argument is this one:
According to two-boxers, you ought to (i) have the disposition to one-box, and (ii) take two boxes.
It is impossible to do (i) and (ii).
Ought implies can.
So two-boxers are wrong.
But, on your use of “disposition”, two-boxers reject 1. They do not believe that you should have a FAWS-disposition to one-box, since having a FAWS-disposition to one-box just means “actually taking one box, where this is not a result of randomness”. Two-boxers think you should non-randomly choose to take two boxes.
ETA: Some two-boxers may hesitate to agree that you “ought to have a disposition to one-box”, even in the philosopher’s sense of “disposition”. This is because they might want “ought” to only apply to actions; such people would, at most, agree that you ought to make yourself a one-boxer.
Rachel does not envy Irene her choice at all. What she wishes is to have the one-boxer’s dispositions, so that the predictor puts a million in the first box, and then to confound all expectations by unpredictably choosing both boxes and reaping the most riches possible.
Richard is probably using disposition in a different sense (possibly the model someone has of someones disposition in my sense) but I believe Eliezer’s usage was closer to mine, and either way disposition in my sense is what she would need to actually get the million dollars.
What is the relevance of this? Are you using this argument? (See comment above.)*
It is impossible to have the one-boxing disposition and then two-box.
Ought implies can.
Therefore, it is false that someone with a one-boxing disposition ought to two-box.
If that isn’t your argument, what is the force of the quoted text?
At any rate, it seems like a bad argument, since analogous arguments will entail that whenever you have some decisive disposition, it is false that you ought to act differently. (It will entail, for instance, NOT[people who have a decisive loss aversion disposition should follow expected utility theory].)
Notice that an analogous argument also cuts the other way:
It is impossible for someone with the two-boxing disposition to one-box.
Ought implies can.
Therefore, it is false that someone with the two-boxing disposition ought to one box.
*I made a similar comment above, but I don’t know how to link to it. Help appreciated.
Type
to get
(I got the URI
http://lesswrong.com/lw/2lg/desirable_dispositions_and_rational_actions/2gg4?c=1from the Permalink on your comment above.)Thanks.
Making a decision means discovering your disposition (if we are using that word, we could call it something else if that avoids terminology confusion. What I mean is the non-random element of how you react to a specific input) in respect to a certain action. In a certain sense you are your dispositions, and everything else is just meaningless extras (that is your values, experiences, non-value preferences, reasoning ability etc. collectively form your dispositions and are part of them). Controlling your dispositions is how you control your actions. And your dispositions are what is doing that controlling. Making a choice between A and B doesn’t mean letting disposition a and disposition b fight and pick a winner, it means that preferences vs A and B are the cause for your disposition being what it is. You can change your disposition vs act X in the sense that your disposition vs any X before time t is Y and your disposition for any X after t is Z, but not in the sense that you can change your disposition vs X at time t from Y to Z. Whatever you actually do (modulo randomness) at time t, that’s your one and only disposition vs X at time t.
Assume you prefer red to blue, but more strongly prefer cubes to spheres. When given the choice between a red sphere and a blue cube and only one of them you can’t just pick the red cube. And it’s not the case that you ought to pick the red after you already have the cube, that’s just nonsense. The problem is more than just impossibility.
Okay, I understand how you use the word “disposition” now. This is not the way I was using the word, but I don’t think that is relevant to our disagreement. I hereby resolve to use the phrase “disposition to A” in the same way as you for the rest of our conversation.
I still don’t understand how this point suggests that people with one-boxing dispositions ought not to two-box. I can only understand it in one way: as in the argument in my original reply to you. But that argument form leads to this absurd conclusion:
(a) whenever you have a disposition to A and you do A, it is false that you ought to have done something else
In particular, it backfires for the intended argumentative purpose, since it entails that two-boxers shouldn’t one-box.
No, when you have disposition a and do A it may be the case that you ought to have disposition b and do B, perhaps disposition a was formed by habit and disposition b would counter-factually have resulted if the disposition had formed on the basis of likely effects and your preferences. What is false is that you ought to have disposition a and do B.
OK. So the argument is this one:
According to two-boxers, you ought to (i) have the disposition to one-box, and (ii) take two boxes.
It is impossible to do (i) and (ii).
Ought implies can.
So two-boxers are wrong.
But, on your use of “disposition”, two-boxers reject 1. They do not believe that you should have a FAWS-disposition to one-box, since having a FAWS-disposition to one-box just means “actually taking one box, where this is not a result of randomness”. Two-boxers think you should non-randomly choose to take two boxes.
ETA: Some two-boxers may hesitate to agree that you “ought to have a disposition to one-box”, even in the philosopher’s sense of “disposition”. This is because they might want “ought” to only apply to actions; such people would, at most, agree that you ought to make yourself a one-boxer.
From the original post:
Richard is probably using disposition in a different sense (possibly the model someone has of someones disposition in my sense) but I believe Eliezer’s usage was closer to mine, and either way disposition in my sense is what she would need to actually get the million dollars.