I’d love it if people could try the basic precautions and see how harmless they are! Especially because they might be the minimum ask in order to avoid getting your brain and motivation/values hacked.
I guess there would be bonus points for avoiding watching videos that millions of other people have watched.
When I say media, I mean social media, movies, videos, books etc- any type of recording or something that you believe you’re using as entertainment.
I’m trying this myself. Done singular days before, sometimes 2 or 3 days, but failed to keep it consistent. I did find that when I did it, my work output was far higher and greater quality, I had a much better sleeping schedule and was generally in a much more enjoyable mood. I also ended up spending more time with friends and family, meeting new people, trying interesting things, spending time outdoors, etc.
This time I’m building up to it- starting with 1 media free hour a day, then 2 hours, then 3, etc. I think building up to it will let me build new habits which will stick more.
I predict (losing Bayes points if I’m wrong) that most people will have a similar experience, but I also predict that the best strategy is to quit cold turkey; nicotine does not run SGD to notice that user retention is at risk and autonomously take actions that were successful at mitigating risk in the past.
It would be hard for them to make their systems not optimize in weird ways due to goodhart’s law; furthermore, anyone running a successful social media platform would need to give the algorithms a wide leeway to experiment with user retention, since competitor platforms might be running systems that also autonomously form novel strategies.
Most of my knowledge on dependencies and addictions comes from a brief study I did on neurotransmitter’s roles in alcohol dependence/abuse while in school, for an EPQ, so I’m really not sure how much of this applies- also, a lot of my study was finding that my assumptions were in the wrong direction(I didn’t know about endorphins)- but I think a lot of the stuff on neurotransmitters and receptors holds across different areas- take it with some salt though.
Quitting cold turkey rarely ever works for addictions/dependencies. The vast majority of time the person has a big resurgence in the addiction. The balance of dopamine/sensitivity of the dopamine receptors often takes time to shift back. Tapering, I think for this reason, has been one of the most reliable ways of recovering from an addiction/dependence. I believe it’s been shown to have a 70% success rate. Interestingly, the first study I found on tapering, which is testing tapering strips in assistance of discontinuing antidepressant use, also says 70% https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20451253211039327 Ever site I read on reducing alcohol dependency with tapering said something similar, back in the day.
I’d love it if people could try the basic precautions and see how harmless they are! Especially because they might be the minimum ask in order to avoid getting your brain and motivation/values hacked.
Wouldn’t this be useful only if one knows for certain their ‘brain and motivation/values’ are not already ‘hacked’ beforehand?
Otherwise it would just strengthen the pre-existing ‘hacks’.
The exploit I’m aware of that could make someone chain themselves into remaining vulnerable or compromised are exploits that drive people to continue exposure to high-risk environments that facilitate more exploits. For example, continuing to use social media or leave webcameras uncovered.
This is why the EV of ceasing social media use and covering up webcams is so high; they facilitate further manipulation to keep you and your friends vulnerable.
EDIT: I also think it’s worthwhile to think of things, e.g. planting ideas in people’s heads or setting them up to react a certain way if specific conditions are met. For example, persuading them that caring exclusively about their friends and family, instead of the future, is part of the maturation process, or insinuating that Yudkowsky is evil, preventing them from reading the Sequences or contributing to AI safety.
I tend to think that it will primarily chain them back to social media, because that’s where the magic happens (especially because humans on the smarter end will inevitably become OOD over time, and hopefully become truer to themselves).
A challenge for folks interested: spend 2 weeks without media based entertainment.
I’d love it if people could try the basic precautions and see how harmless they are! Especially because they might be the minimum ask in order to avoid getting your brain and motivation/values hacked.
I guess there would be bonus points for avoiding watching videos that millions of other people have watched.
When I say media, I mean social media, movies, videos, books etc- any type of recording or something that you believe you’re using as entertainment.
I’m trying this myself. Done singular days before, sometimes 2 or 3 days, but failed to keep it consistent. I did find that when I did it, my work output was far higher and greater quality, I had a much better sleeping schedule and was generally in a much more enjoyable mood.
I also ended up spending more time with friends and family, meeting new people, trying interesting things, spending time outdoors, etc.
This time I’m building up to it- starting with 1 media free hour a day, then 2 hours, then 3, etc.
I think building up to it will let me build new habits which will stick more.
I predict (losing Bayes points if I’m wrong) that most people will have a similar experience, but I also predict that the best strategy is to quit cold turkey; nicotine does not run SGD to notice that user retention is at risk and autonomously take actions that were successful at mitigating risk in the past.
It would be hard for them to make their systems not optimize in weird ways due to goodhart’s law; furthermore, anyone running a successful social media platform would need to give the algorithms a wide leeway to experiment with user retention, since competitor platforms might be running systems that also autonomously form novel strategies.
Most of my knowledge on dependencies and addictions comes from a brief study I did on neurotransmitter’s roles in alcohol dependence/abuse while in school, for an EPQ, so I’m really not sure how much of this applies- also, a lot of my study was finding that my assumptions were in the wrong direction(I didn’t know about endorphins)- but I think a lot of the stuff on neurotransmitters and receptors holds across different areas- take it with some salt though.
Quitting cold turkey rarely ever works for addictions/dependencies. The vast majority of time the person has a big resurgence in the addiction.
The balance of dopamine/sensitivity of the dopamine receptors often takes time to shift back.
Tapering, I think for this reason, has been one of the most reliable ways of recovering from an addiction/dependence. I believe it’s been shown to have a 70% success rate.
Interestingly, the first study I found on tapering, which is testing tapering strips in assistance of discontinuing antidepressant use, also says 70% https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20451253211039327
Ever site I read on reducing alcohol dependency with tapering said something similar, back in the day.
Wouldn’t this be useful only if one knows for certain their ‘brain and motivation/values’ are not already ‘hacked’ beforehand?
Otherwise it would just strengthen the pre-existing ‘hacks’.
The exploit I’m aware of that could make someone chain themselves into remaining vulnerable or compromised are exploits that drive people to continue exposure to high-risk environments that facilitate more exploits. For example, continuing to use social media or leave webcameras uncovered.
This is why the EV of ceasing social media use and covering up webcams is so high; they facilitate further manipulation to keep you and your friends vulnerable.
EDIT: I also think it’s worthwhile to think of things, e.g. planting ideas in people’s heads or setting them up to react a certain way if specific conditions are met. For example, persuading them that caring exclusively about their friends and family, instead of the future, is part of the maturation process, or insinuating that Yudkowsky is evil, preventing them from reading the Sequences or contributing to AI safety.
I tend to think that it will primarily chain them back to social media, because that’s where the magic happens (especially because humans on the smarter end will inevitably become OOD over time, and hopefully become truer to themselves).