Here’s a crude metric I use for gauging the relative goodness of societies as places to live: Immigration vs. emigration.
It’s obviously fuzzy—you can’t get exact numbers on illegal migration, and the barriers (physical, legal, and cultural) to relocation matter, but have to be estimated. So does the possibility that one country may be better than another, but a third may be enough better than either of them to get the immigrants.
For example, the evidence suggests that the EU and the US are about equally good places to live.
I don’t think that’s a good metric. Societies that aren’t open to mass immigration can have negligible numbers of immigrants regardless of the quality of life their members enjoy. Japan is the prime example.
Moreover, in the very worst places, emigration can be negligible because people can be too poor to pay for the ticket to move anywhere, or prohibited to leave.
But “given perfect knowledge of all market prices and individual preferences at every time and place, as well as unlimited computing power”, you could predict how people would choose if they were not faced with legal and moving-cost barriers—e.g. imagine a philanthropist willing to pay the moving costs. So your objection to this metric seems to be a surmountable one, in principle, assuming perfect knowledge etc. The main remaining barrier to migration may be sentimental attachment—but given perfect knowledge etc. one could predict how the choices would change without that remaining barrier.
Applying this metric to Europa versus Earth, presumably Europans would choose to stay on Europa and humans would choose to stay on Earth even with legal, moving-cost, and sentimental barriers removed, indeed both would pay a great deal to avoid being moved.
In contrast to Europans versus humans, humans-of-one-epoch are not very different from humans-of-another-epoch.
Off the top of my head, I know that Finland had negligible levels of immigration until a few years ago. Several Eastern European post-Communist countries are pretty decent places to live these days (I have in mind primarily the Czech Republic), but still have no mass immigration. As far as I know, the same holds for South Korea.
Regarding emigration, the prime example were the communist countries, which strictly prohibited emigration for the most part (though, rather than looking at the numbers of emigrants, we could look at the efforts and risks many people were ready to undertake to escape, which often included dodging snipers and crawling through minefields).
Here’s a crude metric I use for gauging the relative goodness of societies as places to live: Immigration vs. emigration.
It’s obviously fuzzy—you can’t get exact numbers on illegal migration, and the barriers (physical, legal, and cultural) to relocation matter, but have to be estimated. So does the possibility that one country may be better than another, but a third may be enough better than either of them to get the immigrants.
For example, the evidence suggests that the EU and the US are about equally good places to live.
I don’t think that’s a good metric. Societies that aren’t open to mass immigration can have negligible numbers of immigrants regardless of the quality of life their members enjoy. Japan is the prime example.
Moreover, in the very worst places, emigration can be negligible because people can be too poor to pay for the ticket to move anywhere, or prohibited to leave.
But “given perfect knowledge of all market prices and individual preferences at every time and place, as well as unlimited computing power”, you could predict how people would choose if they were not faced with legal and moving-cost barriers—e.g. imagine a philanthropist willing to pay the moving costs. So your objection to this metric seems to be a surmountable one, in principle, assuming perfect knowledge etc. The main remaining barrier to migration may be sentimental attachment—but given perfect knowledge etc. one could predict how the choices would change without that remaining barrier.
Applying this metric to Europa versus Earth, presumably Europans would choose to stay on Europa and humans would choose to stay on Earth even with legal, moving-cost, and sentimental barriers removed, indeed both would pay a great deal to avoid being moved.
In contrast to Europans versus humans, humans-of-one-epoch are not very different from humans-of-another-epoch.
Excellent point—although I would pay a good deal to move to Europa, given a few days worth of air and heat.
A fair point, though I think societies like that are pretty rare. Any other notable examples?
Off the top of my head, I know that Finland had negligible levels of immigration until a few years ago. Several Eastern European post-Communist countries are pretty decent places to live these days (I have in mind primarily the Czech Republic), but still have no mass immigration. As far as I know, the same holds for South Korea.
Regarding emigration, the prime example were the communist countries, which strictly prohibited emigration for the most part (though, rather than looking at the numbers of emigrants, we could look at the efforts and risks many people were ready to undertake to escape, which often included dodging snipers and crawling through minefields).