Another problem with “Vote down” is that many people seem to be using it as a way of indicating their disagreement with a comment, rather than to indicate that the comment was inappropriate or invalid.
I’ve always felt that a valid use of the karma system is to vote up things that you believe are less wrong and vote down things that you believe to be more wrong.
This seems a valid interpretation to me—but is “wrongness” a one-dimensional concept?
A comment can be wrong in the sense of having incorrect information (as RobinZ points out) but right in the sense of arriving at correct conclusions based on that data—in which case I would still count it as a valuable contribution by offering the chance to correct that data, and by extension anyone who arrived at that same conclusion by believing that same incorrect data.
By the same token, a comment might include only true factual statements but arrive at a wrong conclusion by faulty logic.
I think would be inclined, in any ambiguous case such as that (or its opposite), to base an up-or-down vote on the question of whether I thought the commenter was honestly trying to seek truth, however poorly s/he might be doing so.
Should commenters be afraid to repeat false information which they currently believe to be true, for fear of being voted down? (This may sound like a rhetorical question, but it isn’t.)
I think would be inclined, in any ambiguous case such as that (or its opposite), to base an up-or-down vote on the question of whether I thought the commenter was honestly trying to seek truth, however poorly s/he might be doing so.
I don’t think that is in keeping with the overall goals of this site. You should get points for winning (making true statements) not for effort. “If you fail to achieve a correct answer, it is futile to protest that you acted with propriety.”
This doesn’t necessarily mean instantly downvoting anyone who is confused but it does mean that I’m not inclined to award upvotes for well meaning but wrong comments.
Should commenters be afraid to repeat false information which they currently believe to be true, for fear of being voted down? (This may sound like a rhetorical question, but it isn’t.)
Yes. Commenters should assume their comments will be read by multiple people and so should make a reasonable effort to check their facts before posting. A few minutes spent fact checking any uncertain claims to avoid wasted time on the part of readers is something I expect of commenters here and punishing factual inaccuracies with a downvote signals that expectation.
‘Reasonable effort’ is obviously somewhat open to interpretation but if one’s readers can find evidence of factual inaccuracy in a minute or two of googling then one has failed to clear the bar.
I would suggest that it makes no sense to reward getting the right answer without documenting the process you used, because then nobody benefits from your discovery that this process leads (in at least that one case) to the right answer.
Similarly, I don’t see the benefit of punishing someone for getting the wrong answer while sincerely trying to follow the right process. Perhaps a neutral response is appropriate, but we are still seeing a benefit from such failed attempts: we learn how the process can be misunderstood (because if the process is right, and followed correctly, then by definition it will arrive at the right answer), and thus how we need to refine the process (e.g. by re-wording its instructions) to prevent such errors.
Perhaps “Rationality is the art of winning the truth.”?
Actually, I really don’t like the connotations of the word “winning” (it reminds me too much of “arguments are soldiers”); I’d much rather say something like “Rationality is the art of gradually teasing the truth from the jaws of chaos.” Karma points should reflect whether the commenter has pulled out more truth—including truth about flaws in our teasing-process—or (the opposite) has helped feed the chaos-beast.
I’ve always felt that a valid use of the karma system is to vote up things that you believe are less wrong and vote down things that you believe to be more wrong.
I have voted this comment up because I think this idea should be discussed.
Agreed—I often downvote because I believe a comment contains wrong data, such that believing the comment would be harmful to the reader.
This seems a valid interpretation to me—but is “wrongness” a one-dimensional concept?
A comment can be wrong in the sense of having incorrect information (as RobinZ points out) but right in the sense of arriving at correct conclusions based on that data—in which case I would still count it as a valuable contribution by offering the chance to correct that data, and by extension anyone who arrived at that same conclusion by believing that same incorrect data.
By the same token, a comment might include only true factual statements but arrive at a wrong conclusion by faulty logic.
I think would be inclined, in any ambiguous case such as that (or its opposite), to base an up-or-down vote on the question of whether I thought the commenter was honestly trying to seek truth, however poorly s/he might be doing so.
Should commenters be afraid to repeat false information which they currently believe to be true, for fear of being voted down? (This may sound like a rhetorical question, but it isn’t.)
I don’t think that is in keeping with the overall goals of this site. You should get points for winning (making true statements) not for effort. “If you fail to achieve a correct answer, it is futile to protest that you acted with propriety.”
This doesn’t necessarily mean instantly downvoting anyone who is confused but it does mean that I’m not inclined to award upvotes for well meaning but wrong comments.
Yes. Commenters should assume their comments will be read by multiple people and so should make a reasonable effort to check their facts before posting. A few minutes spent fact checking any uncertain claims to avoid wasted time on the part of readers is something I expect of commenters here and punishing factual inaccuracies with a downvote signals that expectation.
‘Reasonable effort’ is obviously somewhat open to interpretation but if one’s readers can find evidence of factual inaccuracy in a minute or two of googling then one has failed to clear the bar.
I would suggest that it makes no sense to reward getting the right answer without documenting the process you used, because then nobody benefits from your discovery that this process leads (in at least that one case) to the right answer.
Similarly, I don’t see the benefit of punishing someone for getting the wrong answer while sincerely trying to follow the right process. Perhaps a neutral response is appropriate, but we are still seeing a benefit from such failed attempts: we learn how the process can be misunderstood (because if the process is right, and followed correctly, then by definition it will arrive at the right answer), and thus how we need to refine the process (e.g. by re-wording its instructions) to prevent such errors.
Perhaps “Rationality is the art of winning the truth.”?
Actually, I really don’t like the connotations of the word “winning” (it reminds me too much of “arguments are soldiers”); I’d much rather say something like “Rationality is the art of gradually teasing the truth from the jaws of chaos.” Karma points should reflect whether the commenter has pulled out more truth—including truth about flaws in our teasing-process—or (the opposite) has helped feed the chaos-beast.