I’ve been wary of posting this because I have had trouble finding a way to phrase it in a non-antagonistic manner but I think at this point it needs saying.
Your personal political leanings are transparent in your original post. I took a quick look around issuepedia after reading the post to see if my impression of your distinctly partisan position was confirmed by what I found there and it quickly became clear that it was. The gulf between your stated claim of aiming for un-biased political discussion and truth seeking and the actual content of your site is vast.
On the other hand, it hasn’t been clear to me exactly what Jonathan Haidt’s party politics were when reading his work. I guessed somewhat liberal but wouldn’t have put money on it. He certainly does a much better job of appearing unbiased and non-partisan to me than you do. Your linked post on What Makes People Vote Republican suggests you think he’s some kind of neo-con (“As a piece of neoconservative propaganda, it is splendid”) which didn’t seem to fit the facts to me. I couldn’t find anything definitive on Haidt’s personal politics but this interview suggests he’s basically a liberal:
JH: We would become much more tolerant, and some compromise might be possible, for example, on gay marriage. Even though personally I would like to see it legalized everywhere, I think it would be a nice compromise if each state could decide whether to legalize it, and nobody was forced one way or the other by the Supreme Court.
...
JH: Well, for one thing, I am more tolerant of others. I was much more tolerant of Republicans and conservatives until the last two years. George Bush and his administration have got me so angry that I find my hard-won tolerance fast disappearing. I am now full of anger. And I find my press secretary drawing up the brief against Bush and his administration. So I can say that doing this work, coming up with this theory, has given me insight into what I’m doing. When I fulminate, my press secretary writes a brief against Bush. Once passions come into play, reason follows along. At least now I know that I’m doing it.
...
JH: It’s fine with me. Doesn’t bother me in the least. Remember: I’m a liberal. So if it doesn’t involve harm to someone, it’s not a big deal to me.
These are understandable concerns… but I make no claim of being unbiased in content. (Did I actually say this anywhere? If so, I need to revise that.)
The ultimate resolution of a debate should not be partisan (i.e. adhering to any particular party’s viewpoint just because that party holds it), but that doesn’t mean the initial claims have to be neutral. The point of the exercise is to make claims one is prepared to defend—partisan or not—and then invite others to attack them.
Either my mind ends up being changed, the minds of the attackers are changed, some combination, or some kind of impasse is reached. Regardless of which scenario ensues, I should think that we all learn something about the process and how to avoid impasse.
Also, just because something happens to align with a particular party’s views does not make it wrong. I would argue (and have done so frequently) that the Democrats are right far more often than the Republicans; the latter are often egregiously wrong, in extremely harmful ways.
Reality is not defined by averaging all viewpoints.
I don’t know if Haidt even realizes his arguments are basically a cover for neocon propaganda; he comes across as honestly believing he is a liberal. His arguments, however, are clearly irrational (which is something we can’t “agree to disagree” about; if you can counter my explanations of how they are irrational, then go for it.) -- and have certainly been used by conservatives as a put-down for liberalism. In any case, I don’t dispute your claim that Haidt’s expressed political views seem to be primarily liberal—for now. I would like, however, to see his answers (or anyone’s answers) to the charges I have raised in on those pages.
I think we’ve looped back to the whole ‘politics is the mind killer’ issue again. From what I’ve read of your writing on issuepedia you strike me as firmly in ‘mind killer’ territory on the subject of politics and I’m neither inclined to read more of your writing or to engage in discussion with you because I expect it to be unproductive. If you honestly want to turn your site into a mechanism for political truth seeking then in my opinion you need to adjust your mindset and writing style. While I don’t object to political discussion here as a matter of principle—I think some discussions here have demonstrated the ability to discuss politics rationally—I would object to political discussion that takes the tone and approach you do on your site.
I’ve been wary of posting this because I have had trouble finding a way to phrase it in a non-antagonistic manner but I think at this point it needs saying.
Your personal political leanings are transparent in your original post. I took a quick look around issuepedia after reading the post to see if my impression of your distinctly partisan position was confirmed by what I found there and it quickly became clear that it was. The gulf between your stated claim of aiming for un-biased political discussion and truth seeking and the actual content of your site is vast.
On the other hand, it hasn’t been clear to me exactly what Jonathan Haidt’s party politics were when reading his work. I guessed somewhat liberal but wouldn’t have put money on it. He certainly does a much better job of appearing unbiased and non-partisan to me than you do. Your linked post on What Makes People Vote Republican suggests you think he’s some kind of neo-con (“As a piece of neoconservative propaganda, it is splendid”) which didn’t seem to fit the facts to me. I couldn’t find anything definitive on Haidt’s personal politics but this interview suggests he’s basically a liberal:
These are understandable concerns… but I make no claim of being unbiased in content. (Did I actually say this anywhere? If so, I need to revise that.)
The ultimate resolution of a debate should not be partisan (i.e. adhering to any particular party’s viewpoint just because that party holds it), but that doesn’t mean the initial claims have to be neutral. The point of the exercise is to make claims one is prepared to defend—partisan or not—and then invite others to attack them.
Either my mind ends up being changed, the minds of the attackers are changed, some combination, or some kind of impasse is reached. Regardless of which scenario ensues, I should think that we all learn something about the process and how to avoid impasse.
Also, just because something happens to align with a particular party’s views does not make it wrong. I would argue (and have done so frequently) that the Democrats are right far more often than the Republicans; the latter are often egregiously wrong, in extremely harmful ways.
Reality is not defined by averaging all viewpoints.
I don’t know if Haidt even realizes his arguments are basically a cover for neocon propaganda; he comes across as honestly believing he is a liberal. His arguments, however, are clearly irrational (which is something we can’t “agree to disagree” about; if you can counter my explanations of how they are irrational, then go for it.) -- and have certainly been used by conservatives as a put-down for liberalism. In any case, I don’t dispute your claim that Haidt’s expressed political views seem to be primarily liberal—for now. I would like, however, to see his answers (or anyone’s answers) to the charges I have raised in on those pages.
I think we’ve looped back to the whole ‘politics is the mind killer’ issue again. From what I’ve read of your writing on issuepedia you strike me as firmly in ‘mind killer’ territory on the subject of politics and I’m neither inclined to read more of your writing or to engage in discussion with you because I expect it to be unproductive. If you honestly want to turn your site into a mechanism for political truth seeking then in my opinion you need to adjust your mindset and writing style. While I don’t object to political discussion here as a matter of principle—I think some discussions here have demonstrated the ability to discuss politics rationally—I would object to political discussion that takes the tone and approach you do on your site.