I would consider 1 human permadeath equal to at least 1 human life that is experiencing the worst possible suffering until the end of the universe.
This is so incredibly far from where I would place the equivalence, and I think where almost anyone would place it, that I’m baffled. You really mean this?
There is an ancient and (unfortunately) still very popular association between death and sleep / rest / peace / tranquility.
The association is so deeply engraved, it is routinely used by most people who have to speak about death. E.g. “rest in peace”, “put to sleep”, “he is in a better place now” etc.
The association is harmful.
The association suggests that death could be a valid solution to pain, which is deeply wrong.
It’s the same wrongness as suggesting to kill a child to make the child less sad.
Technically, the child will not experience sadness anymore. But infanticide is not a sane person’s solution to sadness.
The sane solution is to find a way to make the child less sad (without killing them!).
The sane solution to suffering is to reduce suffering. Without killing the sufferer.
For example, if a cancer patient is in great pain, the most ethical solution is to cure them from cancer, and use efficient painkillers during the process. If there is no cure, then utilize cryonics to transport them into the future where such a cure becomes available. Killing the patient because they’re in pain is a sub-optimal solution (to put it mildly).
I can’t imagine any situation where permadeath is preferable to suffering. With enough tech and time, all kinds of suffering can be eliminated, and their effects can be reversed. But permadeath is, by definition, non-reversible and non-repairable.
If one must choose between a permanent loss of human life and some temporary discomfort, it doesn’t make sense to prefer the permanent loss of life, regardless of the intensity of the discomfort.
(I agree wholeheartedly with almost everything you’ve said here, and have strong upvoted, but I want to make space for the fact that some people don’t make sense, and some people reflectively endorse not making sense, and so while I will argue against their preference for death over discomfort, I will also fight for their right to make the wrong choice for themselves, just as I fight for your and my right to make the correct choice for ourselves. Unless there is freedom for people to make wrong choices, we can never move beyond a socially-endorsed “right” choice to something Actually Better.)
The thing is: regardless of how bad is the worst possible discomfort, dying is still a rather stupid idea, even if you have to endure the discomfort for millions of years. Because if you live long enough, you can find a way to fix any discomfort.
This is so incredibly far from where I would place the equivalence, and I think where almost anyone would place it, that I’m baffled. You really mean this?
There is an ancient and (unfortunately) still very popular association between death and sleep / rest / peace / tranquility.
The association is so deeply engraved, it is routinely used by most people who have to speak about death. E.g. “rest in peace”, “put to sleep”, “he is in a better place now” etc.
The association is harmful.
The association suggests that death could be a valid solution to pain, which is deeply wrong.
It’s the same wrongness as suggesting to kill a child to make the child less sad.
Technically, the child will not experience sadness anymore. But infanticide is not a sane person’s solution to sadness.
The sane solution is to find a way to make the child less sad (without killing them!).
The sane solution to suffering is to reduce suffering. Without killing the sufferer.
For example, if a cancer patient is in great pain, the most ethical solution is to cure them from cancer, and use efficient painkillers during the process. If there is no cure, then utilize cryonics to transport them into the future where such a cure becomes available. Killing the patient because they’re in pain is a sub-optimal solution (to put it mildly).
I can’t imagine any situation where permadeath is preferable to suffering. With enough tech and time, all kinds of suffering can be eliminated, and their effects can be reversed. But permadeath is, by definition, non-reversible and non-repairable.
If one must choose between a permanent loss of human life and some temporary discomfort, it doesn’t make sense to prefer the permanent loss of life, regardless of the intensity of the discomfort.
(I agree wholeheartedly with almost everything you’ve said here, and have strong upvoted, but I want to make space for the fact that some people don’t make sense, and some people reflectively endorse not making sense, and so while I will argue against their preference for death over discomfort, I will also fight for their right to make the wrong choice for themselves, just as I fight for your and my right to make the correct choice for ourselves. Unless there is freedom for people to make wrong choices, we can never move beyond a socially-endorsed “right” choice to something Actually Better.)
Something is handicapping your ability to imagine what the “worst possible discomfort” would be.
The thing is: regardless of how bad is the worst possible discomfort, dying is still a rather stupid idea, even if you have to endure the discomfort for millions of years. Because if you live long enough, you can find a way to fix any discomfort.
I wrote in more detail about it here.