I don’t think pain and failure are the same thing. I like spicy food quite a bit, and I think it’s the intensity as much as anything.
On the other hand, my reaction is a straightforward “Oh goody! Spicy food!”—the kick has nothing to do with a satisfaction in overcoming my own resistance. I believe a lot of the attraction of endurance sports (something I don’t feel) is in the latter.
My impression is that masochism includes both motivations.
I believe that intensity is a very strong motivation—for some people it’s a stronger motivation than safety or the more comfortable aspects of pleasure.
And where people fit in the space of challenge/comfort/intensity/novelty isn’t a single point, either. Someone might be sexually adventurous but only want food they’re used to, or the other way around.
The funny thing is, when S&M first crossed my path and I was trying to understand it, I realized how much sadism there is floating around, too. Is fiction masochism because you’re suffering along with the characters or sadism because you’re watching them suffer?
Spectator sports have a wide sadistic streak, imho, which shows up in the emphasis on painful training and in the fans, preference for the athletes to keep going in the face of injury.
More for the list:
Seeking out reading material that outrages you.
Constantly reviewing one’s failures and deficiencies in a way that doesn’t actually offer any chance of improvement.
Thanks for the Bruce link—I think it’s very important. However, pain and failure aren’t simply related. A masochist who’s just had exactly the kind of fun they want isn’t being Bruce. A masochist who keeps trying to get non-sadists to do sadistic stuff probably is.
Also, people seem to have different success/faliure comfort point in different parts of their lives.
I’ve read about a study which found that people’s success in life had a lot to do with whether they were thin in high school (if female) or tall in high school (if male). Latter weight changes or growth spurts didn’t matter.
A little more music history: As far as I can tell, more recent academic(?) music has moved back towards relative sweetness though not towards melody. The only name that’s coming to mind is Taverner, though he’s not the only one.
I don’t think pain and failure are the same thing. I like spicy food quite a bit, and I think it’s the intensity as much as anything.
On the other hand, my reaction is a straightforward “Oh goody! Spicy food!”—the kick has nothing to do with a satisfaction in overcoming my own resistance. I believe a lot of the attraction of endurance sports (something I don’t feel) is in the latter.
My impression is that masochism includes both motivations.
I believe that intensity is a very strong motivation—for some people it’s a stronger motivation than safety or the more comfortable aspects of pleasure.
And where people fit in the space of challenge/comfort/intensity/novelty isn’t a single point, either. Someone might be sexually adventurous but only want food they’re used to, or the other way around.
The funny thing is, when S&M first crossed my path and I was trying to understand it, I realized how much sadism there is floating around, too. Is fiction masochism because you’re suffering along with the characters or sadism because you’re watching them suffer?
Spectator sports have a wide sadistic streak, imho, which shows up in the emphasis on painful training and in the fans, preference for the athletes to keep going in the face of injury.
More for the list:
Seeking out reading material that outrages you.
Constantly reviewing one’s failures and deficiencies in a way that doesn’t actually offer any chance of improvement.
Thanks for the Bruce link—I think it’s very important. However, pain and failure aren’t simply related. A masochist who’s just had exactly the kind of fun they want isn’t being Bruce. A masochist who keeps trying to get non-sadists to do sadistic stuff probably is.
Also, people seem to have different success/faliure comfort point in different parts of their lives.
I’ve read about a study which found that people’s success in life had a lot to do with whether they were thin in high school (if female) or tall in high school (if male). Latter weight changes or growth spurts didn’t matter.
A little more music history: As far as I can tell, more recent academic(?) music has moved back towards relative sweetness though not towards melody. The only name that’s coming to mind is Taverner, though he’s not the only one.