He hates the non-Plus atheists. (“Dictionary Atheists. Boy, I really do hate these guys. You’ve got a discussion going, talking about why you’re an atheist … and some smug wanker comes along and announces that “Atheism means you lack a belief in gods. Nothing more. Quit trying to add meaning to the term.””—source)
I don’t think he’s saying he hates all non-Plus atheists (whatever that means) here. It seems to me he’s saying that he hates atheists who don’t see atheism as a part of a broader network of commitments or values, or resist the idea that it should be seen as such. He goes on to say, “there is more to my atheism than simple denial of one claim; it’s actually based on a scientific attitude that values evidence and reason, that rejects claims resting solely on authority, and that encourages deeper exploration of the world”.
That actually seems like a pretty reasonable position to me (although “hate” is admittedly a strong word to use in this context). If indeed there are people who see atheism as fundamentally disconnected from general-purpose rationalism, or who don’t see the promotion of atheism as a mere corollary of the promotion of a general rationalist worldview, or who object to making the atheist movement about rationality and science rather than mere disbelief in god, then I do think those people are wrong.
It does seem odd to me that there would be a significant number of atheists who adopt this kind of view, though, so maybe Myers is attacking a strawman here.
It seems to me he’s saying that he hates atheists who don’t see atheism as a part of a broader network of commitments or values
And he has a very specific set of values in mind. Something like feminism or social justice warriorism, or whatever it is they call “Atheism Plus”. (RationalWiki calls it: “a wedding of the New Atheist’s in-your-face attitude about religion with social justice concerns”; and RationalWiki is very positive about this movement, because it’s very close to their own beliefs.) And there is some internet drama about it, which I don’t follow closely, but it seemed to me that all influential atheists who disagree with Atheism Plus soon get anonymously accused of sexual harassment, and then Atheism Plus fans demand their removal from atheist conventions. Or something like this. And PZ Myers is an important figure there.
Essentially… there is a political faction within the atheist community, and the idea is that the atheists who don’t subscribe to this specific political opinion, are not the true atheists. To me it seems that this is not really about atheism, but about a political movement infiltrating another movement which was originally apolitical.
So, if these people dislike (and allegedly fight dirty against) the atheists who don’t join their political faction, I would like to see them starting their conflicts with the outsiders under their own flag, not including the people who disagree with them. So that the natural and predictable reaction would be “Atheists Plus are assholes”, not “(dictionary) atheists are assholes”. If someone starts their own fights, I don’t want them hiding behind my back, especially when the next day they are likely to stab me in the back.
If indeed there are people who see atheism as fundamentally disconnected from general-purpose rationalism, or who don’t see the promotion of atheism as a mere corollary of the promotion of a general rationalist worldview, or who object to making the atheist movement about rationality and science rather than mere disbelief in god, then I do think those people are wrong.
I don’t think he’s saying he hates all non-Plus atheists (whatever that means) here. It seems to me he’s saying that he hates atheists who don’t see atheism as a part of a broader network of commitments or values, or resist the idea that it should be seen as such. He goes on to say, “there is more to my atheism than simple denial of one claim; it’s actually based on a scientific attitude that values evidence and reason, that rejects claims resting solely on authority, and that encourages deeper exploration of the world”.
That actually seems like a pretty reasonable position to me (although “hate” is admittedly a strong word to use in this context). If indeed there are people who see atheism as fundamentally disconnected from general-purpose rationalism, or who don’t see the promotion of atheism as a mere corollary of the promotion of a general rationalist worldview, or who object to making the atheist movement about rationality and science rather than mere disbelief in god, then I do think those people are wrong.
It does seem odd to me that there would be a significant number of atheists who adopt this kind of view, though, so maybe Myers is attacking a strawman here.
And he has a very specific set of values in mind. Something like feminism or social justice warriorism, or whatever it is they call “Atheism Plus”. (RationalWiki calls it: “a wedding of the New Atheist’s in-your-face attitude about religion with social justice concerns”; and RationalWiki is very positive about this movement, because it’s very close to their own beliefs.) And there is some internet drama about it, which I don’t follow closely, but it seemed to me that all influential atheists who disagree with Atheism Plus soon get anonymously accused of sexual harassment, and then Atheism Plus fans demand their removal from atheist conventions. Or something like this. And PZ Myers is an important figure there.
Essentially… there is a political faction within the atheist community, and the idea is that the atheists who don’t subscribe to this specific political opinion, are not the true atheists. To me it seems that this is not really about atheism, but about a political movement infiltrating another movement which was originally apolitical.
So, if these people dislike (and allegedly fight dirty against) the atheists who don’t join their political faction, I would like to see them starting their conflicts with the outsiders under their own flag, not including the people who disagree with them. So that the natural and predictable reaction would be “Atheists Plus are assholes”, not “(dictionary) atheists are assholes”. If someone starts their own fights, I don’t want them hiding behind my back, especially when the next day they are likely to stab me in the back.
The problem is that’s not what Myers was trying to do with Atheism Plus. The values he wanted to introduce were those of the “social justice” crowd, a.k.a., the people who believe that certain scientific opinions are inherently “unjust” and shouldn’t be heard, that their cause is so noble that it justifies lying and falsifying science.