I recently ran across this fascinating essay by Ron Jones
It really is fascinating. But I don’t believe him. I don’t believe it was ‘kept secret’ and this is most likely some kind of delusion he experienced. (A very small experiment of this kind might make him feel so guilty that the size of the project grew in his mind.) For example, I believe I would have felt the same way as his students, but I’m certain I would not have kept it secret.
Also, I’m confused about his statement
You are no better or worse than the German Nazis we have been studying.
That seems rather ridiculous. Being sent to the library for not wanting to participate in an assignment isn’t beyond the pale.
However, something just clicked in my mind and I realized an evil that we do as a society that we allow, because we sanction it as a community. So, yes, I see now how people can go along with something that their conscience should naturally fight against.
It really is fascinating. But I don’t believe him.
I agree that the there are reasons to question the accuracy of Ron Jones’ account.
Also, I’m confused about his statement
You are no better or worse than the German Nazis we have been studying.
Being sent to the library for not wanting to participate in an assignment isn’t beyond the pale.
I think that Jones was not suggesting that the consequences of the students’ actions are comparable to the consequences of Nazis’ actions but rather was claiming that the same tendencies that led the Germans to behave as they did were present in his own students.
This may not literally be true; it’s possible that the early childhood development environment in 1950′s Palo Alto were sufficiently different from the environmental factors in the early 1900′s so that the students did not have the same underlying tendencies that the Nazi Germans did, but it’s difficult to tell one way or the other.
However, something just clicked in my mind and I realized an evil that we do as a society that we allow, because we sanction it as a community. So, yes, I see now how people can go along with something that their conscience should naturally fight against.
Right, this is what I was getting at. I think that there are several interrelated things going on here:
•High self-esteem coming from feeling that one is on the right side.
•Desire for acceptance / fear of rejection by one’s peers.
•Desire to reaping material & other goods from the oppressed party.
with each point being experienced only on a semi-conscious level..
In the case of the Catholic Church presumably only the first two points are operative.
Of course empathy is mixed in there as well; but it may play a negligible role relative to the other factors on the table.
It really is fascinating. But I don’t believe him. I don’t believe it was ‘kept secret’ and this is most likely some kind of delusion he experienced. (A very small experiment of this kind might make him feel so guilty that the size of the project grew in his mind.) For example, I believe I would have felt the same way as his students, but I’m certain I would not have kept it secret.
Also, I’m confused about his statement
That seems rather ridiculous. Being sent to the library for not wanting to participate in an assignment isn’t beyond the pale.
However, something just clicked in my mind and I realized an evil that we do as a society that we allow, because we sanction it as a community. So, yes, I see now how people can go along with something that their conscience should naturally fight against.
I agree that the there are reasons to question the accuracy of Ron Jones’ account.
I think that Jones was not suggesting that the consequences of the students’ actions are comparable to the consequences of Nazis’ actions but rather was claiming that the same tendencies that led the Germans to behave as they did were present in his own students.
This may not literally be true; it’s possible that the early childhood development environment in 1950′s Palo Alto were sufficiently different from the environmental factors in the early 1900′s so that the students did not have the same underlying tendencies that the Nazi Germans did, but it’s difficult to tell one way or the other.
Right, this is what I was getting at. I think that there are several interrelated things going on here:
•High self-esteem coming from feeling that one is on the right side.
•Desire for acceptance / fear of rejection by one’s peers.
•Desire to reaping material & other goods from the oppressed party.
with each point being experienced only on a semi-conscious level..
In the case of the Catholic Church presumably only the first two points are operative.
Of course empathy is mixed in there as well; but it may play a negligible role relative to the other factors on the table.
Add in desire for something more interesting than school usually is.