I really appreciate your advice about doing things. I like doing things almost as much as I like not doing things. Doing is important and we as a community should do more things. But......… ideas! It turns out that one of the weird things about this universe is that ideas might actually be more important than actions. That the very fate of the light-cone—whether or not orthodox Mormons get their 1+ planets (and whether or not it is “simulated” or “real”)-- depends on what may turn out to be slight differences in the things humanity chooses to do, which might boil down to surprisingly small insights from individuals.
That’s not exactly how I’d put it. If the history of the world for the past hundred years or so teaches anything, it’s that energetic, enthusiastic, and active people can be dedicated and loyal to very, very bad ideas. This has had rather unpleasant results on more than one occasion. Getting the ideas right is important.
And then they are bright people with correct ideas that never bother to do anything with or about them or even write them up. It is not enough to be right and stop there.
Agreed! With that said, I submit that the ideas of the Mormon church are not correct. They are not remotely right. Better they should stop before proceeding to the “doing” phase.
That is not completely correct.
There is no absolute wrong in what the Mormons do. There is also no way to first become absolute right, and then start action. There is a continuum of wrongness. Sometimes you got to act before being correct, like in some cases where you act against an evil.
With a closer look you might find things the Mormons do that are better than the actions of common society. Even if they do so for mistaken reasons.
Not using drugs comes to mind. Some religious groups take that serious. And of course the idea of being awesome to your kids and family. In case that actually applies to a higher degree to Mormons.
If they actually get to ‘STOP’ what they do at the moment, HOW will that take place? There are many ways to do the break of off a religion wrong.
That is not completely correct. There is no absolute wrong in what the Mormons do.
I would argue otherwise. This may be the case morally speaking, but if you’re applying standards by which this is true of everyone, then the claim is fairly vacuous. If you’re speaking evidentially, then I would argue that yes, they’re processing data in a way that is absolutely wrong.
And of course, there are plenty of wholesome, happy Mormon families. But I’ve known enough bitter ex Mormons with horror stories that I must treat the idea that Mormonism improves people’s family lives in general with extreme skepticism.
If a “closer look” tells us that some norms lead to happier or more productive lives, and some have negative repercussions, isn’t that closer look better taken before establishing the norms?
The argument also works for Christian families and other religious groups. I am vary to label big parts of the population as inherently evil.
While I would enjoy religion to just disappear there has to be some thinking on what it will be replaced by. It can easily be made worse. The devil you know and such.
There is a definition of terms confusion here between “inherently evil” and “processing data absolutely wrong”.
I also get the impression that much of Europe is an extremely secular society that does OK.
There is confusion for individuals transitioning and perhaps specific questions that need to be dealt with by societies that are transitioning. But in general there is already a good tested answer for what religion can be replaced by. Getting that information to the people who may transition is trickier.
I really appreciate your advice about doing things. I like doing things almost as much as I like not doing things. Doing is important and we as a community should do more things. But......… ideas! It turns out that one of the weird things about this universe is that ideas might actually be more important than actions. That the very fate of the light-cone—whether or not orthodox Mormons get their 1+ planets (and whether or not it is “simulated” or “real”)-- depends on what may turn out to be slight differences in the things humanity chooses to do, which might boil down to surprisingly small insights from individuals.
Ideas.
Ideas + Doing. Each on its own is not particularly useful.
That’s not exactly how I’d put it. If the history of the world for the past hundred years or so teaches anything, it’s that energetic, enthusiastic, and active people can be dedicated and loyal to very, very bad ideas. This has had rather unpleasant results on more than one occasion. Getting the ideas right is important.
And then they are bright people with correct ideas that never bother to do anything with or about them or even write them up. It is not enough to be right and stop there.
Agreed! With that said, I submit that the ideas of the Mormon church are not correct. They are not remotely right. Better they should stop before proceeding to the “doing” phase.
That is not completely correct. There is no absolute wrong in what the Mormons do. There is also no way to first become absolute right, and then start action. There is a continuum of wrongness. Sometimes you got to act before being correct, like in some cases where you act against an evil.
With a closer look you might find things the Mormons do that are better than the actions of common society. Even if they do so for mistaken reasons. Not using drugs comes to mind. Some religious groups take that serious. And of course the idea of being awesome to your kids and family. In case that actually applies to a higher degree to Mormons.
If they actually get to ‘STOP’ what they do at the moment, HOW will that take place? There are many ways to do the break of off a religion wrong.
I would argue otherwise. This may be the case morally speaking, but if you’re applying standards by which this is true of everyone, then the claim is fairly vacuous. If you’re speaking evidentially, then I would argue that yes, they’re processing data in a way that is absolutely wrong.
And of course, there are plenty of wholesome, happy Mormon families. But I’ve known enough bitter ex Mormons with horror stories that I must treat the idea that Mormonism improves people’s family lives in general with extreme skepticism.
If a “closer look” tells us that some norms lead to happier or more productive lives, and some have negative repercussions, isn’t that closer look better taken before establishing the norms?
The argument also works for Christian families and other religious groups. I am vary to label big parts of the population as inherently evil.
While I would enjoy religion to just disappear there has to be some thinking on what it will be replaced by. It can easily be made worse. The devil you know and such.
There is a definition of terms confusion here between “inherently evil” and “processing data absolutely wrong”.
I also get the impression that much of Europe is an extremely secular society that does OK.
There is confusion for individuals transitioning and perhaps specific questions that need to be dealt with by societies that are transitioning. But in general there is already a good tested answer for what religion can be replaced by. Getting that information to the people who may transition is trickier.
what