Thank you for the summary of the state of Arbital!
It seems that while you haven’t achieved your full goals, you have created a system that Eliezer is happy with, which is of non-zero value in itself (or, depending on what you think of MIRI, the AI alignment problem etc., of very large value).
It’d be interesting to work out why projects like Wikipedia and StackOveflow succeeded, while Arbital didn’t, to such an extent. Unfortunately, I don’t really have much of an idea how to answer my own question, so I’ll be among those who want all the answers, but don’t want to write them… (Too niche a target? Luck? Lack of openness to contributors???)
Finally — this is obviously a huge request considering the amount of work you must have put into Arbital — if you’re not planning to re-use much of the existing code and if you don’t think that it would harm the new “Arbital 2.0”, would you consider open-sourcing the existing platform? (This is distinct from the content being under CC BY-SA, though kudos to whoever made that decision!)
It’d be interesting to work out why projects like Wikipedia and StackOveflow succeeded, while Arbital didn’t, to such an extent.
I had some experience being involved in Citizendium which failed. To me it feels like the key difference is openness to contribution.
Both Wikipedia and StackOverflow make it easy for anybody to get involved.
Eric recently shared a link to a post he wrote on Arbital on Facebook. I could either answer on Facebook or an Arbital. Given that Arbital didn’t gave me a text field in which I could write my comment it was easier to answer on facebook and that’s what I did.
Arbital also might be too slow. It’s a general pattern that page loading time matters a great deal and I’m not aware of any successful website that is that slow in 2017.
My guess for Wikipedia’s success is that they were one of the first; and there was more of a sense of an online community back then. Also it’s easier to create Wikipedia content than, say, a good explanation. StackOverflow succeeded because asking and answering questions is pretty easy, you get instant feedback, and they got community management right. (They solved exactly one problem well!) The founders were also really well known so it was easy for them to seed the platform.
I can’t open-source the platform as long as I’m doing the for-profit venture, since the platforms are too similar. However, if at some point I have to stop, then I’ll be happy to open source everything at that point.
The founders were also really well known so it was easy for them to seed the platform.
OTOH Eliezer is also quite well-known, at least in the relevant circles. For example, at my non-American university, almost everyone doing a technical subject, that I know, has heard of and usually read HPMoR (I didn’t introduce them to it). Most don’t agree with the MIRI view on AI risk (or don’t care about it...), but are broadly on board with rationalist principles and definitely do agree that science needs fixing, which is all that you need to think that something like Arbital is a Good Idea. It’s a bit of a shame that HPMoR was finished before Arbital was ready.
I’m also not entirely sure about the comparison with Wikipedia, regarding ease of creating entries vs. writing explanations — in some cases, writing a logical explanation, deriving things from first (relevant) principles is easier than writing an encyclopaedic entry, having the appropriate citations (with Wikipedia policy encouraging secondary over primary sources). Writing things well is another challenge, but that’s the case for both.
The remaining arguments are probably sufficient, in themselves, though.
I can’t open-source the platform as long as I’m doing the for-profit venture, since the platforms are too similar. However, if at some point I have to stop, then I’ll be happy to open source everything at that point.
Thank you for the summary of the state of Arbital!
It seems that while you haven’t achieved your full goals, you have created a system that Eliezer is happy with, which is of non-zero value in itself (or, depending on what you think of MIRI, the AI alignment problem etc., of very large value).
It’d be interesting to work out why projects like Wikipedia and StackOveflow succeeded, while Arbital didn’t, to such an extent. Unfortunately, I don’t really have much of an idea how to answer my own question, so I’ll be among those who want all the answers, but don’t want to write them… (Too niche a target? Luck? Lack of openness to contributors???)
Finally — this is obviously a huge request considering the amount of work you must have put into Arbital — if you’re not planning to re-use much of the existing code and if you don’t think that it would harm the new “Arbital 2.0”, would you consider open-sourcing the existing platform? (This is distinct from the content being under CC BY-SA, though kudos to whoever made that decision!)
I had some experience being involved in Citizendium which failed. To me it feels like the key difference is openness to contribution.
Both Wikipedia and StackOverflow make it easy for anybody to get involved.
Eric recently shared a link to a post he wrote on Arbital on Facebook. I could either answer on Facebook or an Arbital. Given that Arbital didn’t gave me a text field in which I could write my comment it was easier to answer on facebook and that’s what I did.
Arbital also might be too slow. It’s a general pattern that page loading time matters a great deal and I’m not aware of any successful website that is that slow in 2017.
My guess for Wikipedia’s success is that they were one of the first; and there was more of a sense of an online community back then. Also it’s easier to create Wikipedia content than, say, a good explanation. StackOverflow succeeded because asking and answering questions is pretty easy, you get instant feedback, and they got community management right. (They solved exactly one problem well!) The founders were also really well known so it was easy for them to seed the platform.
I can’t open-source the platform as long as I’m doing the for-profit venture, since the platforms are too similar. However, if at some point I have to stop, then I’ll be happy to open source everything at that point.
Thanks for the fast reply!
OTOH Eliezer is also quite well-known, at least in the relevant circles. For example, at my non-American university, almost everyone doing a technical subject, that I know, has heard of and usually read HPMoR (I didn’t introduce them to it). Most don’t agree with the MIRI view on AI risk (or don’t care about it...), but are broadly on board with rationalist principles and definitely do agree that science needs fixing, which is all that you need to think that something like Arbital is a Good Idea. It’s a bit of a shame that HPMoR was finished before Arbital was ready.
I’m also not entirely sure about the comparison with Wikipedia, regarding ease of creating entries vs. writing explanations — in some cases, writing a logical explanation, deriving things from first (relevant) principles is easier than writing an encyclopaedic entry, having the appropriate citations (with Wikipedia policy encouraging secondary over primary sources). Writing things well is another challenge, but that’s the case for both.
The remaining arguments are probably sufficient, in themselves, though.
That makes sense!