This highly depends on the benefits you anticipate gaining from the workshop.
There’s a compounding interest to be gained in going earlier from the perspective of gaining greater rationality skills, which would positively influence whatever you do going onward. You have to weigh that off against the monetary costs of going.
An additional thing to consider is applying for a scholarship. It sounds like you are EA-oriented, and EA-oriented people are likely to get some sort of discount, as I did. So keep that in mind.
I am… not all that EA-oriented. More like “if I had enough money that I no longer had to do anything to support myself, I guess I’ll go do something that I think is fun AND helps people”. If it turns out that is work, then earning to give will probably be something to look at. If it turns out that that is sitting at home all day watching anime and playing games and reading fiction, then that’s what I’d do. (I guess it would be a balance between the two—maybe I’d work on software projects I’d find fun to do when I felt like it—I know I get the itch to build something within a week of vacation)
But I’m not the sort of type to endure personal hardships for others. That sounds mean and it probably is—when I’d work to give I’d basically be in it not to help those people but to hear their stories or to experience a new thing.
Bad example (because westerners going to africa to work is not EA; you’d be better off working in europe and sending the money instead): If I went to Africa to help people there, I wouldn’t be doing it to help those people, I would be doing it because it would be interesting to go on a trip like that and meet people like that and see a village and see that “look, I am helping these people isn’t that great”. And then promptly go back after wintery me has been exposed to the african sun a few times because by gods that is intolerable.
I am more EA-oriented than your average person, but I am not altruistic.
… Then again, some people set the limit of “doing enough” at donating 10% of their income, and if I did that after I became financially independent then you could say that’d be enough already. I don’t know.
Sure, let me clarify. I meant that going earlier would enable one to gain rationality skills earlier, and these would then have a positive impact on everything one does later.
Alternative hypothesis: After a year or two, most participants will revert to their previous behavior. The largest impact is during the workshop and during the following month.
Yeah, one of the big failure modes is that people think that attending the workshop will magically result in internalizing all the benefits of CFAR materials. It’s vital to keep working on them afterward, as I described in my post. For instance, in about an hour I will attend a weekly Google hangout with CFAR staff following up on some of the materials from the workshop. I’m not sure how many others from the workshop will be there, we’ll see. Besides, as Kaj_Sotaja noted here, you can get your money back as well.
As for the benefits… That’s precisely the sort of thing I’d ask people like you who have gone there.
Those 5 second techniques sound cool, but they also sound like the sort of thing you could read about. Maybe study for a week and practice. My current stance is that I shouldn’t go because I have never been to any meetup before and going to one that costs me that much money is probably not so smart—look for a cheaper alternative nearby to increase the value you could get from the workshop. The other main point floating around in my head is that I can already think “well enough” and that spending that money to think better is not effective, and there is other things I should be doing instead. There’s an objection to that floating about as well; “You don’t know what you don’t know”, so how can I use my (perhaps flawed) thought process to determine that I am, in fact, thinking well enough—but that’s a thought that seemingly has no end to second guessing yourself. I feel like that thought could just arm itself if given better resources—“see, you aren’t all that clever—just now, you made a mistake. That’s the 7th one this hour.”
Those 5 second techniques sound cool, but they also sound like the sort of thing you could read about. Maybe study for a week and practice.
And what is your probability estimate that you will ever do it? Because there are many things that could be done in a week, but for most people and most things the week never happens, even when the people are in general interested about the thing.
For example, in a week you could learn basics of a foreign language using Duolingo or some similar online service. Just assume that you are serious about it, take a week of vacation, and spend every day like this: 1 hour study, 1 hour break (food or sport or taking a walk), 1 hour study, 1 hour break, etc. until the evening. If you already know programming, in a week you could learn another programming language, using similar schedule. In a week you could learn playing a new musical instrument. In a week you could significantly reorganize the place where you live. Etc.
Well, maybe this is the issue… so many things that could be learned during one week, but not enough weeks, especially not free weeks. Also, it is difficult to put away everything else during the whole week.
Okay, my point is that saying “this could be done in a week” doesn’t mean anything, unless you really plan such week in your schedule… and most people won’t, even for things they care about. If you can do it, great, you can save a lot of money here. But it’s harder than it seems.
I have prior experience with taking weeks off to learn skills; this is what I did in order to learn for theoretical drivers test.
That said… I didn’t mean to do that in this case, as this is material that needs to be tested on individual basis. Focusing on it for a week hard wouldn’t be very effective for determining whether it works or not, it would be better to focus on it in order to firmly engrain it in my thinking once I’ve managed to get it to work sometimes.
As for the whole point “I don’t need to spend cash; I can learn this from home”, that’s probably flawed; what I’m wondering is whether the difference between learning @ home and learning @ workshop is worth the money.
This highly depends on the benefits you anticipate gaining from the workshop.
There’s a compounding interest to be gained in going earlier from the perspective of gaining greater rationality skills, which would positively influence whatever you do going onward. You have to weigh that off against the monetary costs of going.
An additional thing to consider is applying for a scholarship. It sounds like you are EA-oriented, and EA-oriented people are likely to get some sort of discount, as I did. So keep that in mind.
I am… not all that EA-oriented. More like “if I had enough money that I no longer had to do anything to support myself, I guess I’ll go do something that I think is fun AND helps people”. If it turns out that is work, then earning to give will probably be something to look at. If it turns out that that is sitting at home all day watching anime and playing games and reading fiction, then that’s what I’d do. (I guess it would be a balance between the two—maybe I’d work on software projects I’d find fun to do when I felt like it—I know I get the itch to build something within a week of vacation)
But I’m not the sort of type to endure personal hardships for others. That sounds mean and it probably is—when I’d work to give I’d basically be in it not to help those people but to hear their stories or to experience a new thing.
Bad example (because westerners going to africa to work is not EA; you’d be better off working in europe and sending the money instead): If I went to Africa to help people there, I wouldn’t be doing it to help those people, I would be doing it because it would be interesting to go on a trip like that and meet people like that and see a village and see that “look, I am helping these people isn’t that great”. And then promptly go back after wintery me has been exposed to the african sun a few times because by gods that is intolerable.
I am more EA-oriented than your average person, but I am not altruistic.
… Then again, some people set the limit of “doing enough” at donating 10% of their income, and if I did that after I became financially independent then you could say that’d be enough already. I don’t know.
Perhaps this is something best for CFAR staff to determine rather than yourself—they have certain standards for scholarships.
Citation needed.
Sure, let me clarify. I meant that going earlier would enable one to gain rationality skills earlier, and these would then have a positive impact on everything one does later.
Alternative hypothesis: After a year or two, most participants will revert to their previous behavior. The largest impact is during the workshop and during the following month.
Yeah, one of the big failure modes is that people think that attending the workshop will magically result in internalizing all the benefits of CFAR materials. It’s vital to keep working on them afterward, as I described in my post. For instance, in about an hour I will attend a weekly Google hangout with CFAR staff following up on some of the materials from the workshop. I’m not sure how many others from the workshop will be there, we’ll see. Besides, as Kaj_Sotaja noted here, you can get your money back as well.
As for the benefits… That’s precisely the sort of thing I’d ask people like you who have gone there.
Those 5 second techniques sound cool, but they also sound like the sort of thing you could read about. Maybe study for a week and practice. My current stance is that I shouldn’t go because I have never been to any meetup before and going to one that costs me that much money is probably not so smart—look for a cheaper alternative nearby to increase the value you could get from the workshop. The other main point floating around in my head is that I can already think “well enough” and that spending that money to think better is not effective, and there is other things I should be doing instead. There’s an objection to that floating about as well; “You don’t know what you don’t know”, so how can I use my (perhaps flawed) thought process to determine that I am, in fact, thinking well enough—but that’s a thought that seemingly has no end to second guessing yourself. I feel like that thought could just arm itself if given better resources—“see, you aren’t all that clever—just now, you made a mistake. That’s the 7th one this hour.”
And what is your probability estimate that you will ever do it? Because there are many things that could be done in a week, but for most people and most things the week never happens, even when the people are in general interested about the thing.
For example, in a week you could learn basics of a foreign language using Duolingo or some similar online service. Just assume that you are serious about it, take a week of vacation, and spend every day like this: 1 hour study, 1 hour break (food or sport or taking a walk), 1 hour study, 1 hour break, etc. until the evening. If you already know programming, in a week you could learn another programming language, using similar schedule. In a week you could learn playing a new musical instrument. In a week you could significantly reorganize the place where you live. Etc.
Well, maybe this is the issue… so many things that could be learned during one week, but not enough weeks, especially not free weeks. Also, it is difficult to put away everything else during the whole week.
Okay, my point is that saying “this could be done in a week” doesn’t mean anything, unless you really plan such week in your schedule… and most people won’t, even for things they care about. If you can do it, great, you can save a lot of money here. But it’s harder than it seems.
I have prior experience with taking weeks off to learn skills; this is what I did in order to learn for theoretical drivers test.
That said… I didn’t mean to do that in this case, as this is material that needs to be tested on individual basis. Focusing on it for a week hard wouldn’t be very effective for determining whether it works or not, it would be better to focus on it in order to firmly engrain it in my thinking once I’ve managed to get it to work sometimes.
As for the whole point “I don’t need to spend cash; I can learn this from home”, that’s probably flawed; what I’m wondering is whether the difference between learning @ home and learning @ workshop is worth the money.