In that case, I wonder if it might not be worth it to date in the wider pool, with the aim of finding a woman who is open to deconverting. Generally it’s a bad idea to enter a relationship hoping to change the other person, but religion has long been a sort of special case: a lot of LTRs do involve one party or the other converting or at least modifying their religious views.
This strikes me as a very high risk strategy, and probably a low reward one as well. Deconversion tends to take a long time, and even gentle attempts could strain a new relationship. Going by my own experience observing religious deconversions, it’s likely to take months at the lower end, which you could have spent looking for someone else, and there’s a high probability that it simply wouldn’t work out, in which case your time investment is wasted.
The numbers for atheist men aren’t very good, it’s true, but keep in mind that a rationally minded intellectual is filtering rather strongly for atheists simply by looking for partners they’re compatible with.
I recently began dating an old friend with conservative Christian religious beliefs. Obviously, I don’t have the rationalists-only filter that DA has, and I don’t want to deconvert her. (Her personal relationship with Jesus—that is, the mental feelings that she’s constructed around the idea of Christ—are important to her, and I don’t want to destroy that.) Nevertheless, here’s what’s happened:
In conversation with me, she quickly clarified some nagging doubts about the inclusiveness (and other characteristics) of her old, conservative church. She’s started attending a Congregationalist church instead. (For those unfamiliar with Christian denominations in North America, this is as liberal as you can get and still be explicitly Christian). For a while, she even considered attending the Unitarian Universalist church, since I would be willing to join it with her, but in the end she decided that it didn’t fit.
When we started, I expected the relationship to founder on religious differences, but I agreed to give it a shot anyway. And I seem to have affected her religion instead. I’m not sure what this proves, even when restricted to the one example, but it’s been a surprising few months for me.
In my view the ideology matters surprisingly little. Do not make the mistake of choosing your partner for having the right convictions.
Emphasis added to point out the non sequitur.
Also, my “atheist qualifier” is intended to prevent me from choosing a partner with the wrong convictions, not to encourage me to choose one simply for having the right convictions.
If that’s not something you care about in a relationship, by all means don’t concern yourself with it. But if you feel like you have to decide not to care about your partner’s convictions, then it’s a significant issue, and one that’s likely to surface in the future however you try to suppress it.
I meet many people were their religion has little or no practical influence on their daily lives. If you limit your partner search to the LW/similar cluster you might find it problematic to get a suitable partner. And even then ideological similarities are no guarantee for a happy relationship.
Might be interesting to poll what people look for.
Of course ideological similarities aren’t a guarantee of a happy relationship; for me and for many others, they’re necessary, but I know of nobody for whom they’re sufficient.
Dating a person with religious beliefs which do not have a practical influence on their lives, I have tremendous difficulty respecting them. This is not a hypothetical matter, it’s a mistake I’ve learned to avoid. I know people for whom it does not seem to be an issue, but anyone for whom it is is better off taking it seriously than following advice to exercise tolerance.
That sounds like a fair idea for discussion post. I’ll make one later today, unless you feel like doing it first.
This strikes me as a very high risk strategy, and probably a low reward one as well. Deconversion tends to take a long time, and even gentle attempts could strain a new relationship. Going by my own experience observing religious deconversions, it’s likely to take months at the lower end, which you could have spent looking for someone else, and there’s a high probability that it simply wouldn’t work out, in which case your time investment is wasted.
The numbers for atheist men aren’t very good, it’s true, but keep in mind that a rationally minded intellectual is filtering rather strongly for atheists simply by looking for partners they’re compatible with.
I recently began dating an old friend with conservative Christian religious beliefs. Obviously, I don’t have the rationalists-only filter that DA has, and I don’t want to deconvert her. (Her personal relationship with Jesus—that is, the mental feelings that she’s constructed around the idea of Christ—are important to her, and I don’t want to destroy that.) Nevertheless, here’s what’s happened:
In conversation with me, she quickly clarified some nagging doubts about the inclusiveness (and other characteristics) of her old, conservative church. She’s started attending a Congregationalist church instead. (For those unfamiliar with Christian denominations in North America, this is as liberal as you can get and still be explicitly Christian). For a while, she even considered attending the Unitarian Universalist church, since I would be willing to join it with her, but in the end she decided that it didn’t fit.
When we started, I expected the relationship to founder on religious differences, but I agreed to give it a shot anyway. And I seem to have affected her religion instead. I’m not sure what this proves, even when restricted to the one example, but it’s been a surprising few months for me.
In my view the ideology matters surprisingly little. Do not make the mistake of choosing your partner for having the right convictions.
Emphasis added to point out the non sequitur.
Also, my “atheist qualifier” is intended to prevent me from choosing a partner with the wrong convictions, not to encourage me to choose one simply for having the right convictions.
If that’s not something you care about in a relationship, by all means don’t concern yourself with it. But if you feel like you have to decide not to care about your partner’s convictions, then it’s a significant issue, and one that’s likely to surface in the future however you try to suppress it.
I meet many people were their religion has little or no practical influence on their daily lives. If you limit your partner search to the LW/similar cluster you might find it problematic to get a suitable partner. And even then ideological similarities are no guarantee for a happy relationship.
Might be interesting to poll what people look for.
Of course ideological similarities aren’t a guarantee of a happy relationship; for me and for many others, they’re necessary, but I know of nobody for whom they’re sufficient.
Dating a person with religious beliefs which do not have a practical influence on their lives, I have tremendous difficulty respecting them. This is not a hypothetical matter, it’s a mistake I’ve learned to avoid. I know people for whom it does not seem to be an issue, but anyone for whom it is is better off taking it seriously than following advice to exercise tolerance.
That sounds like a fair idea for discussion post. I’ll make one later today, unless you feel like doing it first.
Poll made. It’s been downvoted to −1, but hopefully the topic will not turn out to be that unwelcome on net.