Would you similarly endorse putting a link up on the front page that explains that “this website displays user-generated content, both in the form of discrete posts and in the form of comments associated either with a post or another comment. To view a post, click the title under “recent posts.” To view comments… etc. etc. etc.”?
Maybe not specifically that, but I recall a lot of new users (and regular users, and critics of users...) complaining that they don’t know e.g. what kinds of comments are appropriate to post under articles, what the pre-requisites for understanding the material and generally stuff that we might just assume they know.
It needs a “how to use the site” section. When the envelope turns red, it means you have a reply or a message. The help link at the bottom of the comment box will tell you how to do formatting, but it’s different formatting methods if you post an article.
There may be useful features on the site that haven’t crossed my path. Finding them seems to be a semi-random process.
The “Preferences” button is worth exploring. In particular, the anti-kibitzer will hide usernames so that you can vote without being biased by your overall like or dislike of various users.
Note on the anti-kibitzer: I use it by default, and find that it prevents me from getting to know the individual users and their views. Although I have gotten to the point where I can sometimes recognize certain posters from their content (Eliezer, Clippy, and Wedrifid mostly).
Although I have gotten to the point where I can sometimes recognize certain posters from their content (Eliezer, Clippy, and Wedrifid mostly).
Some anti-kibitzer users have reported mistaking me for clippy at times! :D
I don’t use anti-kibitzer so I have to allow for hindsight bias—but I’d be willing to bet that I could pick nearly every comment by HughRistik and, if reading with the context as opposed to just the recent comments feed, most of Vladimir_Nesov’s too. Oh, and a lot from Perplexed and timtyler. Picking Alicorn’s posts based on most of them these days being ‘speaking as the Word of God on Luminosity fiction’ would just seem like cheating. ;)
Lesswrong is certainly designed for the advanced user. Most everything on the site is non-standard, which seriously impedes usability for the new user. Considering the topic and intended audience, I’d say it’s a feature, not a bug.
Nonetheless, the site definitely smacks of unix-geekery. It could be humanized somewhat, and that probably wouldn’t hurt.
Very tricky question. I won’t answer it in two ways:
As I indicated, in terms of navigation/organization scheme, LW is completely untraditional. It still feels to me like a dark museum of wonder, of unfathomable depth. I get to something new, and mind-blowing, every time I surf around. So it’s a delightful labyrinth, that unfolds like a series of connected thoughts anyway you work it. It’s an advanced navigation toolset, usable only by people who are able to conceptualize vast abstract constructs… which is the target audience… or is it?
I’ve been in the usability business too long to make UI pronouncements without user research. We’ve got a very specific user base, not defined by typical demo/sociographics, but by affinity. Few common usability heuristics would apply blindly to this case.
Flexible, mobile to wide-screen self-optimizing layout
More personalized features (dashboard, analytics, watch lists, alerts, etc.) although many are implicitly available through feeds, permalinks, etc.
Advanced comments/post management tools for power-users (I’m guessing there might be a need, through I am not one by any means.)
But, again, I think we have a rare thing here: A user base that is smart enough to optimize its own tools. Normally, the best user experience practitioners will tell you that you should research, interview and especially observe your users, but never ever ever just listen to them. They don’t know what they really want, wouldn’t know how to explain it, and what they want isn’t even close to what they actually need. Would LW users be different? And would design by committee work here? I’m very dubious, but curious.
Does anyone know the back-story of how this website evolved? Was it a person, a team, or the whole group designing it?
LW does more to bring its past into the present than any other site I’ve used. I’m thinking that this is partly structure, and partly that the users consider its past posts (much less so with the comments) to be important.
I might be an advanced user—I’m able to use LW and I think I’ve found the major features. [1] On the other hand, I would not have been able to identify the site as being from the style of a particular operating system.
My history goes back to usenet, which is why I keep mentioning that the site needs trn or the equivalent. Still, the way comments are presented is the Least Awful I’ve seen on the web. Trn or slrn might be the kind of thing you mean by advanced comments/post management.
The other thing I think would do the most to keep weaving the past into the present is a better search system. It would help if I could just do a string search which was limited to the posts from a particular user. And if there were a way to get search results arranged chronologically. As far as I can tell, they’re arranged randomly. Something like the advanced search from Google Groups would be really helpful. It can take 10 or 15 minutes for me to find a comment if I manage it at all, and it’s apt to feel like luck.
Only having Recent Comments for LW proper and for LW:Discussion rather than being able to choose Recent Comments for particular threads is of mixed value. I think it does make the site more like one conversation for those who want to put in a lot of time, but that means it’s less useful for those who don’t want to put in that much time and a temptation to kill time for some of the rest.
[1] The site has an abstract resemblance to a bit from one of Doris Piserchia’s novels (Mr. Justice?), in which a school for brilliant children doesn’t offer a map of the buildings, just a map of the local geography. The students are expected to figure out where the buildings are supposed to be.
Huh.
Would you similarly endorse putting a link up on the front page that explains that “this website displays user-generated content, both in the form of discrete posts and in the form of comments associated either with a post or another comment. To view a post, click the title under “recent posts.” To view comments… etc. etc. etc.”?
Maybe not specifically that, but I recall a lot of new users (and regular users, and critics of users...) complaining that they don’t know e.g. what kinds of comments are appropriate to post under articles, what the pre-requisites for understanding the material and generally stuff that we might just assume they know.
LW does have a good “about” section, though.
It needs a “how to use the site” section. When the envelope turns red, it means you have a reply or a message. The help link at the bottom of the comment box will tell you how to do formatting, but it’s different formatting methods if you post an article.
There may be useful features on the site that haven’t crossed my path. Finding them seems to be a semi-random process.
The “Preferences” button is worth exploring. In particular, the anti-kibitzer will hide usernames so that you can vote without being biased by your overall like or dislike of various users.
Note on the anti-kibitzer: I use it by default, and find that it prevents me from getting to know the individual users and their views. Although I have gotten to the point where I can sometimes recognize certain posters from their content (Eliezer, Clippy, and Wedrifid mostly).
Some anti-kibitzer users have reported mistaking me for clippy at times! :D
I don’t use anti-kibitzer so I have to allow for hindsight bias—but I’d be willing to bet that I could pick nearly every comment by HughRistik and, if reading with the context as opposed to just the recent comments feed, most of Vladimir_Nesov’s too. Oh, and a lot from Perplexed and timtyler. Picking Alicorn’s posts based on most of them these days being ‘speaking as the Word of God on Luminosity fiction’ would just seem like cheating. ;)
Lesswrong is certainly designed for the advanced user. Most everything on the site is non-standard, which seriously impedes usability for the new user. Considering the topic and intended audience, I’d say it’s a feature, not a bug.
Nonetheless, the site definitely smacks of unix-geekery. It could be humanized somewhat, and that probably wouldn’t hurt.
What specific changes would you recommend?
Very tricky question. I won’t answer it in two ways:
As I indicated, in terms of navigation/organization scheme, LW is completely untraditional. It still feels to me like a dark museum of wonder, of unfathomable depth. I get to something new, and mind-blowing, every time I surf around. So it’s a delightful labyrinth, that unfolds like a series of connected thoughts anyway you work it. It’s an advanced navigation toolset, usable only by people who are able to conceptualize vast abstract constructs… which is the target audience… or is it?
I’ve been in the usability business too long to make UI pronouncements without user research. We’ve got a very specific user base, not defined by typical demo/sociographics, but by affinity. Few common usability heuristics would apply blindly to this case.
But among the few that would:
Improved legibility, typographic design, visual hierarchy
Flexible, mobile to wide-screen self-optimizing layout
More personalized features (dashboard, analytics, watch lists, alerts, etc.) although many are implicitly available through feeds, permalinks, etc.
Advanced comments/post management tools for power-users (I’m guessing there might be a need, through I am not one by any means.)
But, again, I think we have a rare thing here: A user base that is smart enough to optimize its own tools. Normally, the best user experience practitioners will tell you that you should research, interview and especially observe your users, but never ever ever just listen to them. They don’t know what they really want, wouldn’t know how to explain it, and what they want isn’t even close to what they actually need. Would LW users be different? And would design by committee work here? I’m very dubious, but curious.
Does anyone know the back-story of how this website evolved? Was it a person, a team, or the whole group designing it?
LW does more to bring its past into the present than any other site I’ve used. I’m thinking that this is partly structure, and partly that the users consider its past posts (much less so with the comments) to be important.
I might be an advanced user—I’m able to use LW and I think I’ve found the major features. [1] On the other hand, I would not have been able to identify the site as being from the style of a particular operating system.
My history goes back to usenet, which is why I keep mentioning that the site needs trn or the equivalent. Still, the way comments are presented is the Least Awful I’ve seen on the web. Trn or slrn might be the kind of thing you mean by advanced comments/post management.
The other thing I think would do the most to keep weaving the past into the present is a better search system. It would help if I could just do a string search which was limited to the posts from a particular user. And if there were a way to get search results arranged chronologically. As far as I can tell, they’re arranged randomly. Something like the advanced search from Google Groups would be really helpful. It can take 10 or 15 minutes for me to find a comment if I manage it at all, and it’s apt to feel like luck.
Only having Recent Comments for LW proper and for LW:Discussion rather than being able to choose Recent Comments for particular threads is of mixed value. I think it does make the site more like one conversation for those who want to put in a lot of time, but that means it’s less useful for those who don’t want to put in that much time and a temptation to kill time for some of the rest.
[1] The site has an abstract resemblance to a bit from one of Doris Piserchia’s novels (Mr. Justice?), in which a school for brilliant children doesn’t offer a map of the buildings, just a map of the local geography. The students are expected to figure out where the buildings are supposed to be.
I am very new to the site, and have, in the short time I have been here, found it to be both a pleasure to navigate and easy to use.
Although I could very well fit under the category of “advanced user”.