You are talking about what ought to be. I am describing what is—how people think and behave. What we can observe is that many people have a great deal of difficulty getting off the phone when a telemarketer calls. The reason, I think, is clear: they are reluctant to end the conversation unless the other person lets them go, because this is conversational etiquette. That’s why it’s difficult. You saying that it ought not be difficult isn’t a description, it’s an exhortation. You’re talking in exhortatory/advisory mode when saying “I disagree that this is rude”. I’m talking in descriptive mode: ending a conversation when the other party has not let go violates the etiquette that many people have thoroughly internalized. It doesn’t matter that some alternative etiquette would be superior if analyzed from a utilitarian standpoint. The one people have internalized is the one that produces the behavior.
Another entity who takes (unintentional) advantage of our reluctance to disengage until we allowed to is the bore, the tedious person who won’t shut up. I see the same behavior relative to bores that I see relative to telemarketers. Though people want nothing better than for the bore to shut up and let them get on with their day, they stay and pretend to listen to the bore until the bore is done talking, which may not be for a long time. Again, it doesn’t matter that, analyzed from a utilitarian standpoint, the optimal behavior is to disengage. I’m describing, not advising. My advice is to cut them short, but that is neither here nor there.
Another entity who takes (unintentional) advantage of our reluctance to disengage until we allowed to is the bore, the tedious person who won’t shut up. I see the same behavior relative to bores that I see relative to telemarketers.
Of course that is true, and it is not at all what I was advocating. And you’re right that suggesting people learn to say “no” is an exhortation. It was also quite beside the original point (though I did bring it up first, certainly).
The point is that politely interrupting a conversation that does not appear to be particularly private or personal, for the purpose of contributing to that conversation, is not rude. Neither is asking a question. It can certainly become so if you ignore the hints to stop, but it does not start out that way.
I also doubt the bore enjoys boring people, so getting irritated at him when you aren’t willing to tell him to stop seems pretty inconsiderate to me.
politely interrupting a conversation that does not appear to be particularly private or personal, for the purpose of contributing to that conversation, is not rude
I’m sure they like to think they’re entertaining. Which, ironically, incentivises their investing very little in finding out they actually are. I honestly would expect someone to react pretty badly to being told or hinted at that they’re abusing your patience—and I think that’s why people get pissed off with such people. There’s little option to exit the conversation properly.
IME, bores tend to just find themselves with fewer and fewer friends as time goes on - often without ever finding out why. Because how can you tell them? Costs you social points for dubious gain.
You are talking about what ought to be. I am describing what is—how people think and behave. What we can observe is that many people have a great deal of difficulty getting off the phone when a telemarketer calls. The reason, I think, is clear: they are reluctant to end the conversation unless the other person lets them go, because this is conversational etiquette. That’s why it’s difficult. You saying that it ought not be difficult isn’t a description, it’s an exhortation. You’re talking in exhortatory/advisory mode when saying “I disagree that this is rude”. I’m talking in descriptive mode: ending a conversation when the other party has not let go violates the etiquette that many people have thoroughly internalized. It doesn’t matter that some alternative etiquette would be superior if analyzed from a utilitarian standpoint. The one people have internalized is the one that produces the behavior.
Another entity who takes (unintentional) advantage of our reluctance to disengage until we allowed to is the bore, the tedious person who won’t shut up. I see the same behavior relative to bores that I see relative to telemarketers. Though people want nothing better than for the bore to shut up and let them get on with their day, they stay and pretend to listen to the bore until the bore is done talking, which may not be for a long time. Again, it doesn’t matter that, analyzed from a utilitarian standpoint, the optimal behavior is to disengage. I’m describing, not advising. My advice is to cut them short, but that is neither here nor there.
Of course that is true, and it is not at all what I was advocating. And you’re right that suggesting people learn to say “no” is an exhortation. It was also quite beside the original point (though I did bring it up first, certainly).
The point is that politely interrupting a conversation that does not appear to be particularly private or personal, for the purpose of contributing to that conversation, is not rude. Neither is asking a question. It can certainly become so if you ignore the hints to stop, but it does not start out that way.
I also doubt the bore enjoys boring people, so getting irritated at him when you aren’t willing to tell him to stop seems pretty inconsiderate to me.
Also, tautologies are tautological.
Indeed, I meant only to suggest there is a polite and impolite way to do it, and that interrupting in and of itself was not rude.
I could have phrased it better.
I’m sure they like to think they’re entertaining. Which, ironically, incentivises their investing very little in finding out they actually are. I honestly would expect someone to react pretty badly to being told or hinted at that they’re abusing your patience—and I think that’s why people get pissed off with such people. There’s little option to exit the conversation properly.
IME, bores tend to just find themselves with fewer and fewer friends as time goes on - often without ever finding out why. Because how can you tell them? Costs you social points for dubious gain.