Have you ever felt jealousy? Romantic or otherwise?
Yes, both. But I don’t see jealousy as this big emotional dead-end. “If you see jealousy, run the other way! Only evil will you find here!” Jealousy is a response. Like a rash or something. It’s an indication that something needs to be dealt with. It could be the emotional equivalent of skin cancer… but it’s more likely that it’s the equivalent of a need to use a different brand of soap. Upon further inspection, it’s often not that big of a deal.
Having multiple children doesn’t threaten the loss of your previous children. That’s why.
See, I think we are just looking at this from very different perspectives. Why would your partner need to leave you for another if they could just have you both?? It seems to me that monogamy and its “all or nothing” treatment of partners is what causes people to leave. Monogamy is not immune to partners leaving, to which divorce statistics attest. No, I would say that monogamy encourages leaving! Sometimes even demands it.
if you’re more secure in your primary relationship than I would be in a poly scenario, I feel like you may not be updating sufficiently given available information about human relationships.
I’m guessing we are updating on very different data. Monogamy is a disaster, contributing to tremendous misery and pain (not to mention waste of resources). And the polyamory I’ve seen has been largely positive. Not universally, but largely. On more than one occasion, I’ve even seen it save what monogamy threatened to destroy, with its insistence upon jealous, fear, and punishment.
I have no idea what you are talking about with Tortuga, so cannot reply to that (sorry).
But yes, it seems we have very different experiences with polyamory, and in both cases mostly anecdotal evidence. (Perhaps I have just been lucky!) But before you write off polyamory altogether, I would suggest that you take a harder look at monogamy and what it has left in its path.
Why would your partner need to leave you for another if they could just have you both??
Because they might like the other more, which would hurt me enough that I would not want to stay.
But before you write off polyamory altogether [...]
Oh, it was written off long ago; my curiosity is academic, not for assessment with respect to personal change. I am in a successful, long-term monogamous relationship, and neither of us want that to change.
I’m not sure what you mean by what monogamy “has left in its path.” If you mean divorce rates, I can only repeat that my anecdotal experience with polyamorous couples has seen them split up at least as frequently.
Because they might like the other more, which would hurt me enough that I would not want to stay.
And a child might (and often will) say the same about a new little brother or sister.
This doesn’t illustrate your proclaimed difference between the two situations. You’re not losing your partner, you’re leaving them. Just as a child doesn’t lose their parents love, but they may choose to ignore that love because they are jealous of a younger sibling.
I don’t see the child-parent relationship as usefully analogous to the romantic love relationship.
You’re not losing your partner, you’re leaving them.
If one of your partners murders your mother, but wants to stay with you, is there really a difference if you call what follows “losing them” or “leaving them”? You lost/left your partner because they committed a dealbreaker. I just have different dealbreakers than you do.
I see your murder analogy as less useful than the child-parent analogy, FWIW.
Anyway, I asked, and you answered:
Why would your partner need to leave you for another if they could just have you both??
Because they might like the other more, which would hurt me enough that I would not want to stay.
Whoa, whoa, whoa… that is not an answer to the question I asked! You see, already, by examining the hypothetical situation, we are getting somewhere. :-)
So are your fears truly about being left, or about feeling a level of jealousy and hurt that you don’t think you can live with?
(You don’t have to answer me; the point is that, through asking these kinds of questions and examining your feelings, you can find the source of these feelings. And sometimes it’s a surprisingly small thing that you really need!)
You lost/left your partner because they committed a dealbreaker. I just have different dealbreakers than you do.
You choose (and are allowed to change) your deal-breakers.
And for the record, in case it sounds like I’m trying to convince you to try polyamory again, I’m really not. Not at all. While I don’t think the reasons you gave are very good ones for avoiding polyamory, the fact that you are in a successful mono relationship that you are both happy with is all the reason you need, of course. :-)
So are your fears truly about being left, or about feeling a level of jealousy and hurt that you don’t think you can live with?
Both, of course. The jealousy and hurt is, in part, a rejection to a fear of being left or rejected. And in part it’s just base possessiveness, probably. I’m good with that.
you can find the source of these feelings
I’m answering questions about these feelings because I’m in a discussion about them with people who presumable don’t feel them (or not in the same way). I’m not confused or in the dark about the source of my feelings on the matter. This is not the first time I’ve thought about my feelings, just as I’m sure when you explain why you’re okay with poly, it’s not your first time working through these thoughts either.
You choose (and are allowed to change) your deal-breakers.
Sure. But why would I, when I have zero desire to?
Yes, both. But I don’t see jealousy as this big emotional dead-end. “If you see jealousy, run the other way! Only evil will you find here!” Jealousy is a response. Like a rash or something. It’s an indication that something needs to be dealt with. It could be the emotional equivalent of skin cancer… but it’s more likely that it’s the equivalent of a need to use a different brand of soap. Upon further inspection, it’s often not that big of a deal.
See, I think we are just looking at this from very different perspectives. Why would your partner need to leave you for another if they could just have you both?? It seems to me that monogamy and its “all or nothing” treatment of partners is what causes people to leave. Monogamy is not immune to partners leaving, to which divorce statistics attest. No, I would say that monogamy encourages leaving! Sometimes even demands it.
I’m guessing we are updating on very different data. Monogamy is a disaster, contributing to tremendous misery and pain (not to mention waste of resources). And the polyamory I’ve seen has been largely positive. Not universally, but largely. On more than one occasion, I’ve even seen it save what monogamy threatened to destroy, with its insistence upon jealous, fear, and punishment.
I have no idea what you are talking about with Tortuga, so cannot reply to that (sorry).
But yes, it seems we have very different experiences with polyamory, and in both cases mostly anecdotal evidence. (Perhaps I have just been lucky!) But before you write off polyamory altogether, I would suggest that you take a harder look at monogamy and what it has left in its path.
Because they might like the other more, which would hurt me enough that I would not want to stay.
Oh, it was written off long ago; my curiosity is academic, not for assessment with respect to personal change. I am in a successful, long-term monogamous relationship, and neither of us want that to change.
I’m not sure what you mean by what monogamy “has left in its path.” If you mean divorce rates, I can only repeat that my anecdotal experience with polyamorous couples has seen them split up at least as frequently.
And a child might (and often will) say the same about a new little brother or sister.
This doesn’t illustrate your proclaimed difference between the two situations. You’re not losing your partner, you’re leaving them. Just as a child doesn’t lose their parents love, but they may choose to ignore that love because they are jealous of a younger sibling.
I don’t see the child-parent relationship as usefully analogous to the romantic love relationship.
If one of your partners murders your mother, but wants to stay with you, is there really a difference if you call what follows “losing them” or “leaving them”? You lost/left your partner because they committed a dealbreaker. I just have different dealbreakers than you do.
I see your murder analogy as less useful than the child-parent analogy, FWIW.
Anyway, I asked, and you answered:
Whoa, whoa, whoa… that is not an answer to the question I asked! You see, already, by examining the hypothetical situation, we are getting somewhere. :-)
So are your fears truly about being left, or about feeling a level of jealousy and hurt that you don’t think you can live with?
(You don’t have to answer me; the point is that, through asking these kinds of questions and examining your feelings, you can find the source of these feelings. And sometimes it’s a surprisingly small thing that you really need!)
You choose (and are allowed to change) your deal-breakers.
And for the record, in case it sounds like I’m trying to convince you to try polyamory again, I’m really not. Not at all. While I don’t think the reasons you gave are very good ones for avoiding polyamory, the fact that you are in a successful mono relationship that you are both happy with is all the reason you need, of course. :-)
Both, of course. The jealousy and hurt is, in part, a rejection to a fear of being left or rejected. And in part it’s just base possessiveness, probably. I’m good with that.
I’m answering questions about these feelings because I’m in a discussion about them with people who presumable don’t feel them (or not in the same way). I’m not confused or in the dark about the source of my feelings on the matter. This is not the first time I’ve thought about my feelings, just as I’m sure when you explain why you’re okay with poly, it’s not your first time working through these thoughts either.
Sure. But why would I, when I have zero desire to?