The point is that things I’m likely to identify as “terminal values”, especially in the contexts of disagreements, are simply not that fundamental, and are much closer to derived surface heuristics or even tribal affiliation signals.
That’s certainly a serious risk, especially if terminal values work like axioms. There’s a strong incentive in debate or policy conflict to claim an instrumental value was terminal just to insulate it from attack. And then, by process of the failure mode identified in Keep Your Identity Small, one is likely to come to believe that the value actually is a terminal value for oneself.
I feel like I’m not properly responding to your comment though.
I took your essay as trying to make a meta-ethical point about “terminal values” and how using the term with an incoherent definition causes confusion in the debate. Parallel to when you said if we interact with an unshielded utility, it’s over, we’ve committed a type error. If that was not your intent, then I’ve misunderstood the essay.
I took your essay as trying to make a meta-ethical point about “terminal values” and how using the term with an incoherent definition causes confusion in the debate. Parallel to when you said if we interact with an unshielded utility, it’s over, we’ve committed a type error. If that was not your intent, then I’ve misunderstood the essay.
Oops, it wasn’t really about how we use terms or anything. I’m trying to communicate that we are not as morally wise as we sometimes pretend to be, or think we are. That Moral Philosophy is an unsolved problem, and we don’t even have a good idea how to solve it (unlike, say physics, where it’s unsolved, but the problem is understood).
This is in preparation for some other posts on the subject, the next of which will be posted tonight or soon.
That Moral Philosophy is an unsolved problem, and we don’t even have a good idea how to solve it
That said there has been centuries of work on the subject, that Eliezer unfortunately through out because VHM-utilitarianism is so mathematically elegant.
That’s certainly a serious risk, especially if terminal values work like axioms. There’s a strong incentive in debate or policy conflict to claim an instrumental value was terminal just to insulate it from attack. And then, by process of the failure mode identified in Keep Your Identity Small, one is likely to come to believe that the value actually is a terminal value for oneself.
I took your essay as trying to make a meta-ethical point about “terminal values” and how using the term with an incoherent definition causes confusion in the debate. Parallel to when you said if we interact with an unshielded utility, it’s over, we’ve committed a type error. If that was not your intent, then I’ve misunderstood the essay.
Oops, it wasn’t really about how we use terms or anything. I’m trying to communicate that we are not as morally wise as we sometimes pretend to be, or think we are. That Moral Philosophy is an unsolved problem, and we don’t even have a good idea how to solve it (unlike, say physics, where it’s unsolved, but the problem is understood).
This is in preparation for some other posts on the subject, the next of which will be posted tonight or soon.
That said there has been centuries of work on the subject, that Eliezer unfortunately through out because VHM-utilitarianism is so mathematically elegant.