Explaining it as a complaint about a constrained preference does negate the heterosexual example, but I could easily tweak the example a bit: I could still ask why “Muggle Plots” doesn’t include plots that assume a character isn’t bisexual. And my incest example applies without even any tweaks—I’m not pointing out that Star Wars would be different if characters accepted incestuous relationships and no other kind, I’m pointing out that Star Wars would be different if characters accepted incestuous relationships in addition to the ones they do now—that is, if their preference was less constrained. So why is it that a plot that depends on the unacceptability of incest doesn’t count as a Muggle Plot?
Having read the rest of the conversation… I’d say that yes, I have a mild “dammit, aren’t condoms invented in this universe long ago enough to these issues to have gone away?!” to Starwars, but only after reconsidering it in the light of Homestuck. Which by the way, provides an excellent example in the alien Trolls considering both heterosexuality and incest-taboos in the kids to be trite annoyances.
I’m going out on a limb here, and saying that Muggle Plot is not a property of a plot, or even a plot-reader pair, but rather an emotion that can be felt in response to a plot, and which is scalar, with a rough heuristic being that it’s stronger the more salient the option that’d make the plot go away is in whatever communities you participate in.
I’d say that yes, I have a mild “dammit, aren’t condoms invented in this universe long ago enough to these issues to have gone away?!”
Why? Remember adaptation executors not fitness maximizers. And if condoms have been around for long enough for people to adapt to them, the first adaptation would be to no longer find condomed sex pleasurable or fulfilling.
So why is it that a plot that depends on the unacceptability of incest doesn’t count as a Muggle Plot?
I suspect the constraint against incest seems relevant to Eliezer. (The concept as I outlined it is subjective, and I suspect the association with “transhumanism + polyamory” is difficult to pin down without a reference to Eliezer or clusters he’s strongly associated with.)
Explaining it as a complaint about a constrained preference does negate the heterosexual example, but I could easily tweak the example a bit: I could still ask why “Muggle Plots” doesn’t include plots that assume a character isn’t bisexual. And my incest example applies without even any tweaks—I’m not pointing out that Star Wars would be different if characters accepted incestuous relationships and no other kind, I’m pointing out that Star Wars would be different if characters accepted incestuous relationships in addition to the ones they do now—that is, if their preference was less constrained. So why is it that a plot that depends on the unacceptability of incest doesn’t count as a Muggle Plot?
Having read the rest of the conversation… I’d say that yes, I have a mild “dammit, aren’t condoms invented in this universe long ago enough to these issues to have gone away?!” to Starwars, but only after reconsidering it in the light of Homestuck. Which by the way, provides an excellent example in the alien Trolls considering both heterosexuality and incest-taboos in the kids to be trite annoyances.
I’m going out on a limb here, and saying that Muggle Plot is not a property of a plot, or even a plot-reader pair, but rather an emotion that can be felt in response to a plot, and which is scalar, with a rough heuristic being that it’s stronger the more salient the option that’d make the plot go away is in whatever communities you participate in.
Why? Remember adaptation executors not fitness maximizers. And if condoms have been around for long enough for people to adapt to them, the first adaptation would be to no longer find condomed sex pleasurable or fulfilling.
I suspect the constraint against incest seems relevant to Eliezer. (The concept as I outlined it is subjective, and I suspect the association with “transhumanism + polyamory” is difficult to pin down without a reference to Eliezer or clusters he’s strongly associated with.)