Part of the answer is to note that mixtures of indeterminism and determinism are possible, so that libertarian free will is not just pure randomness, where any action is equally likely.
This is really interesting, because I agree with this, but also agree with what Seth’s saying. I think this disagreement might actually be largely a semantic one. As such, I’m going to (try to) avoid using the terms ‘libertarian’ or ‘compatibilist’ free will. First of all I agree with the use of “indeterminism” to mean non-uniform randomness. I agree that there is a way that determinism and indeterminism can be mixed in such a way as give rise to an emergent property that is not present in either purely determined or purely random systems. I understand this in relation to the idea of evolutionary “design” which emerges from a system that necessarily has both determined and indeterminate properties (indeterminate at least at the level of the genes, they might not be ultimately indeterminate).
I’m going to employ a decision-making map that seeks to clarify my understanding of the how we make decisions and where we might get “what we want” from.
As I see it, the items in white are largely set, and change only gradually, and with no sense of control involved. I don’t believe we have any control over our genes, our intentions or desires, what results our actions will have, of the world—I also don’t think we have any control over our model of ourselves or the world, those are formed subconsciously. But our effort (in the green areas) allows for deliberative decision making, following an evolutionary selection process, in which our conscious awareness is involved.
In this way we are not beholden to the first action available to us, we can, instead of taking an action in the world, make a series of simulated actions in our head, consciously experiencing the predicted outcome of those actions, until we find a satisfactory one. So, you don’t end up with a determined or a random solution, you end up with an option based on your conscious experience of your simulated options. This process satisfies my wants in terms of my sense that I have some control (when I make the effort) over my decisions. At the same time, I’m agnostic about whether true indeterminism exists at all, but, like with evolution, with randomness at the level of the cell (that may not be ultimately random), I think even in an entirely determined universe, we exist on a level that is subject to, at least, some apparent indeterminism. And even if that apparent indeterminism turns out to be determined, our (eternal) inability to calculate what is determined, still means we have no grounds to act in any way other than as if we have the control we feel we have.
I’m actually not sure if this makes me a compatibilist or not.
Determinists are always telling each other to act like libertarians. That’s a clue that libertarianism is worth wanting.
So, I don’t think my position is the same as asserting that we should act like libertarians, as I have (now) described my conception of the situation, I just think I should act consistent with this conception. By analogy, there are still people who say atheists often act according to “religious” moral values, but in fact they’re not—it’s just that morality is mode of behaviour that has all the same functions regardless of one’s belief system.
This is really interesting, because I agree with this, but also agree with what Seth’s saying. I think this disagreement might actually be largely a semantic one. As such, I’m going to (try to) avoid using the terms ‘libertarian’ or ‘compatibilist’ free will. First of all I agree with the use of “indeterminism” to mean non-uniform randomness. I agree that there is a way that determinism and indeterminism can be mixed in such a way as give rise to an emergent property that is not present in either purely determined or purely random systems. I understand this in relation to the idea of evolutionary “design” which emerges from a system that necessarily has both determined and indeterminate properties (indeterminate at least at the level of the genes, they might not be ultimately indeterminate).
I’m going to employ a decision-making map that seeks to clarify my understanding of the how we make decisions and where we might get “what we want” from.
As I see it, the items in white are largely set, and change only gradually, and with no sense of control involved. I don’t believe we have any control over our genes, our intentions or desires, what results our actions will have, of the world—I also don’t think we have any control over our model of ourselves or the world, those are formed subconsciously. But our effort (in the green areas) allows for deliberative decision making, following an evolutionary selection process, in which our conscious awareness is involved.
In this way we are not beholden to the first action available to us, we can, instead of taking an action in the world, make a series of simulated actions in our head, consciously experiencing the predicted outcome of those actions, until we find a satisfactory one. So, you don’t end up with a determined or a random solution, you end up with an option based on your conscious experience of your simulated options. This process satisfies my wants in terms of my sense that I have some control (when I make the effort) over my decisions. At the same time, I’m agnostic about whether true indeterminism exists at all, but, like with evolution, with randomness at the level of the cell (that may not be ultimately random), I think even in an entirely determined universe, we exist on a level that is subject to, at least, some apparent indeterminism. And even if that apparent indeterminism turns out to be determined, our (eternal) inability to calculate what is determined, still means we have no grounds to act in any way other than as if we have the control we feel we have.
I’m actually not sure if this makes me a compatibilist or not.
So, I don’t think my position is the same as asserting that we should act like libertarians, as I have (now) described my conception of the situation, I just think I should act consistent with this conception. By analogy, there are still people who say atheists often act according to “religious” moral values, but in fact they’re not—it’s just that morality is mode of behaviour that has all the same functions regardless of one’s belief system.