I’d like to point out the parallel to the existentialist concept of “absurdity”. From Wikipedia:
It is illogical to seek purpose or meaning in an uncaring world without purpose or meaning, or to accumulate excessive wealth in the face of certain death. Absurdity is used in existentialist and related philosophy to describe absurdly pointless efforts to try to find such meaning or purpose in an objective and uncaring world, a philosophy known as absurdism.
To draw out the connection: rather than saying “reality is weirdly normal”, I would say: Reality is absurd in human terms. Physics does not care about you. ‘Every action has an equal and opposite reaction’ is not a principle of justice; it has only to do with kinetic motion. Conservation of energy does not entail survival after death. The universe is allowed to kill you. Physics will happily twist everything you find meaningful beyond recognition (including you yourself).
This has a depressing aspect which is not present in the post. Perhaps that is the largest flaw of existentialism. However, I think this concept of absurdity is valuable. “Absurd” takes things one step further than “weird”, in a way I feel clarifies things.
Reality is absurdly normal.
=Edit=
The ensuing discussin has made me change my mind. The concept of the absurd is not an improvement here. Insisting that reality is absurd in human terms (strongly violating our intuitions and also our values) is not helpful; it’s relevantly similar to insisting that life is a mystery or that quantum mechanics is impossible to understand.
Sartre is my prototype for ‘existentialist’ (and he was the first person to adopt the term), so I’m usually talking about his philosophy when I say ‘existentialism’. Camus’ philosophy is the thing I’d label ‘absurdism’. The two thought they had different philosophies, though I think they mainly disagreed on emphasis and tone rather than substance. I’ve seen it put best:
“Sartre: life is meaningless, SO HUMANS CREATE MEANING.
“Camus: LIFE IS MEANINGLESS, so humans create meaning.”
Camus is also frequently mopey and mournful about the fact that we live in a godless, purposeless universe. Sartre is positively gleeful and exultant about it. (Though, admittedly, glee and exultation can look pretty scholastic and grim when you funnel it through Sartre’s authorial demeanor.) So I think of absurdism as the brand of existentialism that emphasizes our tragic helplessness to escape our world’s absurdity (the Droopy Dog Method for overcoming nihilism), while Sartrean existentialism emphasizes the mad power and freedom that comes with atheism (the Calvinball Method for overcoming nihilism). I believe Sartre avoids the flaw Eliezer’s pointing at. (Though he suffers from plenty of other flaws.)
Perhaps it is a slight digression, but I don’t see Sartre and Camus as two sides of the existential coin. I believe Camus concludes the Myth of Sisyphus with the hero happy, and concluding all is well, despite the absurdity of reality. I don’t get “Droopy Dog” from Camus.
...
I really like your first sentence...
“Reality is normal.” That is: Surprise, confusion, and mystery are features of maps, not of territories. If you would think like reality, cultivate outrage at yourself for failing to intuit the data, not resentment at the data for being counter-intuitive.
In my head (and in the context of Camus’s absurdism) it reads like this:
“Reality is normal, though it may appear at times to be perfectly absurd. That is, absurdity, and all that it entails, is a feature of how we may come to view the map, not a characteristic of the territory itself. To win, spend your life experiencing & studying the territory, as well as working on how to draw a better (more accurate) map; don’t waste resources pouting about the ‘way the territory is’...just keeping living & studying & improving that map.”
I don’t see Sartre and Camus as two sides of the existential coin. I believe Camus concludes the Myth of Sisyphus with the hero happy, and concluding all is well, despite the absurdity of reality. I don’t get “Droopy Dog” from Camus.
This is a key reason I see Sartre and Camus as substantively in agreement, and disagreeing just in tone and emphasis; Camus’ insistence that in spite of all he’s said Sisyphus must somehow be happy, aligns him with Sartre’s view that human value can emerge even in nightmarish circumstances, via individuals’ attitudes toward their circumstances. Sisyphus’ sudden and inexplicable turn-around is the moment in the Droopy Dog cartoons when the narrative arc is suddenly broken and Droopy smashes everyone in sight, bringing things back into order by deus ex animale. (In contrast, Sartre tries to give explicit arguments for why Sisyphus’ position is a superior one.)
I would indeed call this the largest flaw of existentialism. For one thing, reality would probably seem a lot less existential!absurd in a happy intergalactic civilization, also permitted by physics.
Robby’s totally right with respect to Sartre. And a statement that doesn’t hold for Sartre doesn’t firmly stand as a statement about existentialism, I think; he’s too central. Virtually everything I’ve read of Sartre’s engenders a triumphant resolution to create the world I want to live in, and a sense that doing so is my personal responsibility. His philosophy is not all ponies and rainbows, because it’s sometimes extremely frightening, but it’s the opposite of depressing.
I’m not sure exactly when existentialism’s image switched over from Sartre’s ‘fuck yeah, life is meaningless! let’s do all the things!’ to ‘alas, life is meaningless! we are all sad and alone in the cosmos and stuff.’ I guess Camus happened. Plus Sartre is really terrible at PR.
Enjoy billions of years contemplating your inevitable demise.
Or, enjoy several weeks of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy as you train yourself out of pointless rumination followed by billions of years enjoying utopia. The universe having a trait that is not preferred does not thereby obligate you to be overwhelmed by angst.
Or, enjoy several weeks of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy as you train yourself out of pointless rumination followed by billions of years enjoying utopia
Can I do it now and enjoy my remaining lifespan? And if so, do I really need intergalactic civilization?
The simplistic view is that 50 years of life is, all else being equal, less desirable than 50 billion years of life. As it happens 50 billion years of life is actually better than 50 years of similar quality life. This isn’t a complicated or deep issue.
If the clever rhetorical questions you ask are rhetorically wrong then they remain wrong even if you have some good point that you want to ultimately support. I know this is a peculiar cultural norm to go by but it’s a valuable one.
50 billion years still remain absurdly small compared to eternity.
Quite a lot smaller, yes.
The interesting question to ask here is what chance of eternal life we would be willing to exchange for a given 1% chance of 50 billion years of life in terms of hypothetical decision making. For instance someone who valued years of life linearly would, given the chance, dedicate the cosmic commons to computronium dedicated to optimistic matrix hacking even if almost completely certain there is no escape possible. I don’t value life years linearly and I’m quite sure that there are finite numbers of life years that I would prefer over chances of eternal life but I don’t know quite what the equivalence function looks like.
You are curious now. You might become less curious after the first billion years. :-)
PS. I’m not advocating deathism. Just saying that any period of time is insignificant, when compared to a much larger period of time. The billion-year happy intergalactic civilization is still absurdly tiny compared to the eternity of Boltzmann-brain-infested Darkness that follows...
The absurd claim is “there is nothing you ought to do or ought to not do”. The claim “life is tough” is not absurd. ETA: existentialism in the absurdist flavor (as opposed to for example the Christian flavor) is a form of value anti-realism which is not nihilism. It denies that there are values that could guide choices, but puts intrinsic value into making choices.
I’d like to point out the parallel to the existentialist concept of “absurdity”. From Wikipedia:
To draw out the connection: rather than saying “reality is weirdly normal”, I would say: Reality is absurd in human terms. Physics does not care about you. ‘Every action has an equal and opposite reaction’ is not a principle of justice; it has only to do with kinetic motion. Conservation of energy does not entail survival after death. The universe is allowed to kill you. Physics will happily twist everything you find meaningful beyond recognition (including you yourself).
This has a depressing aspect which is not present in the post. Perhaps that is the largest flaw of existentialism. However, I think this concept of absurdity is valuable. “Absurd” takes things one step further than “weird”, in a way I feel clarifies things.
Reality is absurdly normal.
=Edit=
The ensuing discussin has made me change my mind. The concept of the absurd is not an improvement here. Insisting that reality is absurd in human terms (strongly violating our intuitions and also our values) is not helpful; it’s relevantly similar to insisting that life is a mystery or that quantum mechanics is impossible to understand.
Sartre is my prototype for ‘existentialist’ (and he was the first person to adopt the term), so I’m usually talking about his philosophy when I say ‘existentialism’. Camus’ philosophy is the thing I’d label ‘absurdism’. The two thought they had different philosophies, though I think they mainly disagreed on emphasis and tone rather than substance. I’ve seen it put best:
“Sartre: life is meaningless, SO HUMANS CREATE MEANING.
“Camus: LIFE IS MEANINGLESS, so humans create meaning.”
Camus is also frequently mopey and mournful about the fact that we live in a godless, purposeless universe. Sartre is positively gleeful and exultant about it. (Though, admittedly, glee and exultation can look pretty scholastic and grim when you funnel it through Sartre’s authorial demeanor.) So I think of absurdism as the brand of existentialism that emphasizes our tragic helplessness to escape our world’s absurdity (the Droopy Dog Method for overcoming nihilism), while Sartrean existentialism emphasizes the mad power and freedom that comes with atheism (the Calvinball Method for overcoming nihilism). I believe Sartre avoids the flaw Eliezer’s pointing at. (Though he suffers from plenty of other flaws.)
Perhaps it is a slight digression, but I don’t see Sartre and Camus as two sides of the existential coin. I believe Camus concludes the Myth of Sisyphus with the hero happy, and concluding all is well, despite the absurdity of reality. I don’t get “Droopy Dog” from Camus.
...
I really like your first sentence...
In my head (and in the context of Camus’s absurdism) it reads like this:
“Reality is normal, though it may appear at times to be perfectly absurd. That is, absurdity, and all that it entails, is a feature of how we may come to view the map, not a characteristic of the territory itself. To win, spend your life experiencing & studying the territory, as well as working on how to draw a better (more accurate) map; don’t waste resources pouting about the ‘way the territory is’...just keeping living & studying & improving that map.”
Anyhow, interesting post. Much to consider.
This is a key reason I see Sartre and Camus as substantively in agreement, and disagreeing just in tone and emphasis; Camus’ insistence that in spite of all he’s said Sisyphus must somehow be happy, aligns him with Sartre’s view that human value can emerge even in nightmarish circumstances, via individuals’ attitudes toward their circumstances. Sisyphus’ sudden and inexplicable turn-around is the moment in the Droopy Dog cartoons when the narrative arc is suddenly broken and Droopy smashes everyone in sight, bringing things back into order by deus ex animale. (In contrast, Sartre tries to give explicit arguments for why Sisyphus’ position is a superior one.)
I would indeed call this the largest flaw of existentialism. For one thing, reality would probably seem a lot less existential!absurd in a happy intergalactic civilization, also permitted by physics.
Robby’s totally right with respect to Sartre. And a statement that doesn’t hold for Sartre doesn’t firmly stand as a statement about existentialism, I think; he’s too central. Virtually everything I’ve read of Sartre’s engenders a triumphant resolution to create the world I want to live in, and a sense that doing so is my personal responsibility. His philosophy is not all ponies and rainbows, because it’s sometimes extremely frightening, but it’s the opposite of depressing.
I’m not sure exactly when existentialism’s image switched over from Sartre’s ‘fuck yeah, life is meaningless! let’s do all the things!’ to ‘alas, life is meaningless! we are all sad and alone in the cosmos and stuff.’ I guess Camus happened. Plus Sartre is really terrible at PR.
Nope. If the Big Rip doesn’t do you in, the Heat Death of the universe will. Enjoy billions of years contemplating your inevitable demise.
Or, enjoy several weeks of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy as you train yourself out of pointless rumination followed by billions of years enjoying utopia. The universe having a trait that is not preferred does not thereby obligate you to be overwhelmed by angst.
Can I do it now and enjoy my remaining lifespan? And if so, do I really need intergalactic civilization?
Yes. By all means.
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy isn’t a cure for death. Yes, the intergalactic civilisation and the accompanying technology sounds rather important.
Intergalactic civilization isn’t a cure for death, either.
The simplistic view is that 50 years of life is, all else being equal, less desirable than 50 billion years of life. As it happens 50 billion years of life is actually better than 50 years of similar quality life. This isn’t a complicated or deep issue.
This isn’t what I’m arguing against here. Of course 50 billion years is better, ceteris paribus.
50 billion years still remain absurdly small compared to eternity.
What I am arguing against are these particular comments.
If the clever rhetorical questions you ask are rhetorically wrong then they remain wrong even if you have some good point that you want to ultimately support. I know this is a peculiar cultural norm to go by but it’s a valuable one.
Quite a lot smaller, yes.
The interesting question to ask here is what chance of eternal life we would be willing to exchange for a given 1% chance of 50 billion years of life in terms of hypothetical decision making. For instance someone who valued years of life linearly would, given the chance, dedicate the cosmic commons to computronium dedicated to optimistic matrix hacking even if almost completely certain there is no escape possible. I don’t value life years linearly and I’m quite sure that there are finite numbers of life years that I would prefer over chances of eternal life but I don’t know quite what the equivalence function looks like.
I’d like to take a million years or two to fully study the issue before I accept that my demise is inevitable.
I would still be curious how much I can get out of life in billions of years.
You are curious now. You might become less curious after the first billion years. :-)
PS. I’m not advocating deathism. Just saying that any period of time is insignificant, when compared to a much larger period of time. The billion-year happy intergalactic civilization is still absurdly tiny compared to the eternity of Boltzmann-brain-infested Darkness that follows...
PPS. Or we could just taboo the word “absurd”.
As a function of how long the universe will exist? ETA: a short period of time might be significantly located.
This reminds of a website where you can check if the Earth has been destroyed.
International Earth-Destruction Advisory Board.
See also: http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/
Thanks. Now we need one to check the existence of the entire universe. Of course, the site will have to be hosted off-universe.
The absurd claim is “there is nothing you ought to do or ought to not do”. The claim “life is tough” is not absurd. ETA: existentialism in the absurdist flavor (as opposed to for example the Christian flavor) is a form of value anti-realism which is not nihilism. It denies that there are values that could guide choices, but puts intrinsic value into making choices.