EDIT: I am closing analysis on this poll now. Thanks to the 104 respondents.
This is a poll on a minor historical point which came up on #lesswrong where we wondered how obscure some useless trivia was; please do not look up anything mentioned here—knowing the answers does not make you a better person, I’m just curious—and if you were reading that part of the chat, likewise please do not answer.
Do you know what a “holystone” is and is used for?
[pollid:462]
In this passage:
“Tu Mu relates a stratagem of Chu-ko Liang, who in 149 BC, when occupying Yang-p’ing and about to be attacked by Ssu-ma I, suddenly struck his colors, stopped the beating of the drums, and flung open the city gates, showing only a few men engaged in sweeping and sprinkling the ground. This unexpected proceeding had the intended effect; for Ssu-ma I, suspecting an ambush, actually drew off his army and retreated.”
Do you know why the men are “sprinkling the ground”?
[pollid:463]
If yes, please reply to this comment using rot13 with what you believe they are doing and why.
In this passage:
“Simplicity of life, even the barest, is not a misery, but the very foundation of refinement: a sanded floor and whitewashed walls, and the green trees, and flowery meads, and living waters outside; or a grimy palace amid the smoke with a regiment of housemaids always working to smear the dirt together so that it may be unnoticed; which, think you, is the most refined, the most fit for a gentleman of those 2 dwellings?”
Does “sanded floor” refer to...?
[pollid:464]
(I’m writing a little essay on the topic; if you’re curious, respond non-anonymously and in a week or three I’ll ping you with a link to it.)
FYI, this is a good example of a case where rot13ing doesn’t help at all. The instant I glanced at gwern’s comment I got what was being said, simply from length considerations. In this case it’s more or less OK, as it’s not a major spoiler point and one would need to unrot13 Morendil’s comment in order to actually get what you were saying “Lrf” about, but had gwern written the comment unrot13ed, I would have gotten exactly the same information from glancing at it.
(But maybe other people would not automatically infer the message from, say, the length? For me, it was something perfectly natural that my brain did automatically, but who knows, that might just be my brain. I am curious: do other people’s brains also automatically react like that in situations like this?)
Vagrerfgvat ubj srj crbcyr xabj vg, vfa’g vg, jura nf sne nf V pna gryy vg’f n cresrpgyl beqvanel cneg bs yvsr va znal pbhagevrf naq unf orra sbe zvyyraavn? Ohg ba gur bgure unaq, vg ybbxf yvxr nyzbfg rirel bar vf trggvat gur ‘fnaqrq sybbe’ dhrfgvba evtug, juvpu fgevxrf zr nf jrveq orpnhfr lbh jbhyq guvax gung crbcyr jbhyq vasre gung vg ersref gb cnvagvat be pbafgehpgvba be fbzrguvat. V’ir fgnegrq gb jbaqre vs V fperjrq hc gur cbyy ol chggvat gur bgure dhrfgvbaf svefg… V guvax V znl arrq gb qb nabgure cbyy, creuncf ba tjrea.arg, jurer V punatr gur beqre bs gur dhrfgvbaf be znlor nfx bayl gur fnaq dhrfgvba be hfr n qvssrerag dhbgr… Uz.
Vs V nz ubarfg, gura, V zhfg nqzvg gung gur cenpgvpr vf pbzzba va fbhgu Vaqvn, va gur fznyy gbja naq ivyyntrf. Pbzr penpx bs qnja lbh’yy svaq jbzra fjrrcvat naq jngrevat gur ragenaprf gb gur gurve ubzrf :) Ner lbh jevgvat na rffnl nobhg fbhgu Vaqvn? Gur fnaqrq sybbef naq gur juvgrjnfurq jnyyf ner nyfb erzvaqref bs gur fnzr guvat.
V nterr. Gur evtug nafjre vf bofpher naq fubhyq or ng n fvzvyne % nf gur bgure dhrfgvbaf, ohg vg’f jnl uvture; gb zr, guvf fnlf V sbezhyngrq gur dhrfgvba jebat. V’ir orra zrnavat gb eha n frpbaq cbyy guebhtu tjrea.arg gb trg n qvssrerag nhqvrapr bs erfcbaqragf, ohg V unira’g orra noyr gb guvax bs ubj gb nfx gur fnaql-sybbe dhrfgvba pbeerpgyl.
EDIT: I am closing analysis on this poll now. Thanks to the 104 respondents.
This is a poll on a minor historical point which came up on
#lesswrongwhere we wondered how obscure some useless trivia was; please do not look up anything mentioned here—knowing the answers does not make you a better person, I’m just curious—and if you were reading that part of the chat, likewise please do not answer.Do you know what a “holystone” is and is used for?
[pollid:462]
In this passage:
Do you know why the men are “sprinkling the ground”?
[pollid:463]
If yes, please reply to this comment using rot13 with what you believe they are doing and why.
In this passage:
Does “sanded floor” refer to...?
[pollid:464]
(I’m writing a little essay on the topic; if you’re curious, respond non-anonymously and in a week or three I’ll ping you with a link to it.)
Unsure rather than “yes”, but: xrrcvat gur qhfg qbja?
Lrf.
FYI, this is a good example of a case where rot13ing doesn’t help at all. The instant I glanced at gwern’s comment I got what was being said, simply from length considerations. In this case it’s more or less OK, as it’s not a major spoiler point and one would need to unrot13 Morendil’s comment in order to actually get what you were saying “Lrf” about, but had gwern written the comment unrot13ed, I would have gotten exactly the same information from glancing at it.
(But maybe other people would not automatically infer the message from, say, the length? For me, it was something perfectly natural that my brain did automatically, but who knows, that might just be my brain. I am curious: do other people’s brains also automatically react like that in situations like this?)
Yes, and as you might have intentionally hinted, there are ways of expressing the same sentiment with less letters—or the opposite with more.
Regarding question 1: Fhecevfrq gurer jrer fb srj crbcyr gung xarj jung n “ubylfgbar” jnf. V thrff gurer nera’g znal Cngevpx B’Oevra ernqref urer.
V nz n yvggyr fhecevfrq gbb, ohg vg qbrf znxr n yvggyr frafr—jura jnf gur ynfg gvzr lbh fnj nal anhgvpny nyyhfvbaf be qvfphffvbaf bs, fnl, Ubengvb Ubeaoybjre?
Vs V’z guvaxvat pbeerpgyl, lneqf hfrq gb or ragveryl qveg, fhpu gung vs lbh fcevaxyrq gur lneq jvgu jngre, lbh pbhyq nibvq evfvat qhfg.
Fhpu jnf gur cbvag bs gurve raqrnibhe, lbh ner pbeerpg.
I also answered “unsure”, and thought it was gb xrrc gur qhfg qbja (ybbxf yvxr V’z gur guveq bar va gung pnfr).
Vagrerfgvat ubj srj crbcyr xabj vg, vfa’g vg, jura nf sne nf V pna gryy vg’f n cresrpgyl beqvanel cneg bs yvsr va znal pbhagevrf naq unf orra sbe zvyyraavn? Ohg ba gur bgure unaq, vg ybbxf yvxr nyzbfg rirel bar vf trggvat gur ‘fnaqrq sybbe’ dhrfgvba evtug, juvpu fgevxrf zr nf jrveq orpnhfr lbh jbhyq guvax gung crbcyr jbhyq vasre gung vg ersref gb cnvagvat be pbafgehpgvba be fbzrguvat. V’ir fgnegrq gb jbaqre vs V fperjrq hc gur cbyy ol chggvat gur bgure dhrfgvbaf svefg… V guvax V znl arrq gb qb nabgure cbyy, creuncf ba tjrea.arg, jurer V punatr gur beqre bs gur dhrfgvbaf be znlor nfx bayl gur fnaq dhrfgvba be hfr n qvssrerag dhbgr… Uz.
#2 V nafjrerq hafher orpnhfr gur dhrfgvba jnf nzovthbhf. V nffhzr gurl’er fcevaxyvat jngre gb xrrc gur qhfg qbja—wnavgbevny jbex. Jnf gur dhrfgvba nobhg guvf yvgrenyyl, be nfxvat nobhg gur fvtavsvpnapr bs fubjvat n srj zra qbvat wnavgbevny jbex gb gur rarzl? Orpnhfr V qba’g xabj jung gur fvtavsvpnapr bs gung fbeg bs jbex fcrpvsvpnyyl vf.
Vg jnf yvgreny. Nf V fnvq, uvfgbevpny gevivn.
For #2 Fcevaxyvat jngre ba gur tebhaq gb xrrc vg sebz envfvat qhfg?
Whfg fb.
Vs V nz ubarfg, gura, V zhfg nqzvg gung gur cenpgvpr vf pbzzba va fbhgu Vaqvn, va gur fznyy gbja naq ivyyntrf. Pbzr penpx bs qnja lbh’yy svaq jbzra fjrrcvat naq jngrevat gur ragenaprf gb gur gurve ubzrf :) Ner lbh jevgvat na rffnl nobhg fbhgu Vaqvn? Gur fnaqrq sybbef naq gur juvgrjnfurq jnyyf ner nyfb erzvaqref bs gur fnzr guvat.
Lrf, gung jbhyqa’g fhecevfr zr ng nyy. Zl rffnl vfa’g nobhg fbhgu Vaqvn ohg npghnyyl zber nobhg Ratynaq naq Arj Ratynaq (gung’f jurer gur Tbbtyr Obbxf uvgf pbzr sebz sbe “fnaqrq sybbe”, fb gung’f jurer gur rffnl tbrf), naq gurer gbb fnaqrq sybbef ner nffbpvngrq jvgu juvgrjnfurq jnyyf. Ner lbh sebz fbhgu Vaqvn naq pna qvfphff guvf, be qb lbh xabj bs nal hfrshy fbheprf? Na Vaqvna rknzcyr gb tb jvgu gur Puvarfr rknzcyr jbhyq or avpr.
V’z fbeel V cbfgrq zber naq gura qryrgrq vg, V ernyvmrq gung guvf jnf n choyvp sbehz naq V nz cnenabvq nobhg cevinpl. Cyrnfr rznvy zr ng zl yj unaqyr ng tznvy, V’yy or unccl gb nafjre nal dhrfgvbaf lbh unir.
V’z fbeel V cbfgrq zber naq gura qryrgrq vg, V ernyvmrq gung guvf jnf n choyvp sbehz naq V nz cnenabvq nobhg cevinpl. Cyrnfr rznvy zr ng zl yj unaqyr ng tznvy, V’yy or unccl gb nafjre nal dhrfgvbaf lbh unir.
V qvqa’g svaq nalguvat rvgure, ohg V qvq qvfpbire fbzrguvat nyzbfg nf tbbq: nccneragyl vg’f fgvyy n yvggyr avpur evghny guvat va Wncna pnyyrq ‘hpuvzvmh’, naq gurer’f dhvgr n srj cubgbf bs vg bayvar:
uggcf://frpher.syvpxe.pbz/frnepu/?j=nyy&d=hpuvzvmh&z=grkg
uggc://jjj.jbeyq-vafvtugf.pbz/hpuvzvmh-fcevaxyr-jngre-ba-gur-ebnq/
uggc://jjj.qnaalpubb.pbz/cbfg/ra/1015/Hpuvzvmh.ugzy
Ab qvpr ba fnaqrq sybbef gubhtu.
Likewise replied with “unsure” in the 2nd question but my guess was fcevaxyvat jvgu fbzrguvat yvxr fnyg fb gung ab jrrqf jvyy tebj.
Ab. Naljnl, fnyg jbhyq or sne gbb rkcrafvir & fpnepr va na rneyl Puvarfr pbagrkg gb jnfgr ba gung jura fvzcyr sbbg genssvp naq iruvpyrf jbhyq xvyy nal cynagf gurer.
For question 2, V oryvrir gurl ner jngrevat gur qhfgl tebhaq gb xrrc gur qhfg qbja. Bgurejvfr fjrrcvat whfg envfrf pybhqf bs qhfg vagb gur nve naq vf abg nyy gung hfrshy.
For question 3, zl rkcrpgngvba vf gung fbzr uneq sybbe (cbffvoyl pynl be qveg) vf pbirerq jvgu n yvtug ynlre bs fnaq—fvzvyne gb ubj fnjqhfg jnf hfrq ba sybbef bs chof naq gnireaf. Gung’f abg na bcgvba va gur cbyy, gubhtu :-)
Regarding question 3, V guvax gur pbeerpg nafjre jnf gbb rnfl gb thrff; va cnegvphyne, V nz cerggl fher V thrffrq vg pbeerpgyl jvgubhg rire univat urneq gung grez orsber (ol nanybtl jvgu fnaqrq jbbq).
V nterr. Gur evtug nafjre vf bofpher naq fubhyq or ng n fvzvyne % nf gur bgure dhrfgvbaf, ohg vg’f jnl uvture; gb zr, guvf fnlf V sbezhyngrq gur dhrfgvba jebat. V’ir orra zrnavat gb eha n frpbaq cbyy guebhtu tjrea.arg gb trg n qvssrerag nhqvrapr bs erfcbaqragf, ohg V unira’g orra noyr gb guvax bs ubj gb nfx gur fnaql-sybbe dhrfgvba pbeerpgyl.