Just as a datapoint, though I expect my reaction is not atypical: I consider myself something of an insider — I have been to several meetups and I comment on LW regularly — and this seems cultish to me. I have to agree that, pretty inevitably, outsiders would see this kind of ritual as cultish. We would do well to understand the complexities involved.
I think it takes more than a yearly ritual to make a group look like a cult. Um, things like being encouraged to give the group lots of money.
Some life-style changes are also apt to set off cult warnings, but I don’t think the sorts of changes LWers make are of that sort, especially since many of the changes (for example, dietary) vary from one person to another.
As a newcomer who has never been to a meetup—an outsider—I assure you that you are right. It seems surprisingly cultish. I say “surprisingly” because I would never have imagined that LWers would attempt to ape religion and chain awe at the numinous to a specific set of rituals. I suppose in retrospect there is ample precedent, because certainly the Twelve Virtues and the litanies are pseudo-religious (presumably to lend them gravity), but… yipes!
There are parts of our brains that respond very strongly to ritual. As long as they’re still there, we might as well use them to impart knowledge that’s actually true. Also, if we can’t figure out how to supplant religious rituals with new rituals that provide the same social function but without the false beliefs attached, then people will always see a need for religion in their lives.
Edit: Kaj_Sotala wrote a comment expounding the second point above.
The part where you read exerts from HP Lovecraft and the sequences makes my cult sensors go off like a foghorn. All of the rest of it seems perfectly beneign. It’s just the readings that make me think “CULT!” in the back of my mind. It seems like they’re being used as a replacement for a sacred text and being used to sermonize with. If it weren’t for that, this would seem much less cultish and more like a university graduation or a memorial or other secular-but-accepted-and-important ritual.
I disagree with the statement that they’re “pretty inevitable”—why do you think that?
Its mostly based on intuition and pattern matching but to break it down as much as possible.
1) It seems like most movements of this very general type start collecting rituals at this stage.
2)My own personal introspection plus the feel of several recent conversations on LW meant that I (apparently correctly) felt that an event like this would gain widespread support if someone actually organized it. In retrospect I should have put these down in prediction book awhile ago, but it slipped my mind.
I agree with the warning. I disagree with the statement that they’re “pretty inevitable”—why do you think that?
That said, I think this was a good documentation of the event, and I’d like to attend something similar someday.
Just as a datapoint, though I expect my reaction is not atypical: I consider myself something of an insider — I have been to several meetups and I comment on LW regularly — and this seems cultish to me. I have to agree that, pretty inevitably, outsiders would see this kind of ritual as cultish. We would do well to understand the complexities involved.
It does sound like fun, though.
I think it takes more than a yearly ritual to make a group look like a cult. Um, things like being encouraged to give the group lots of money.
Some life-style changes are also apt to set off cult warnings, but I don’t think the sorts of changes LWers make are of that sort, especially since many of the changes (for example, dietary) vary from one person to another.
As a newcomer who has never been to a meetup—an outsider—I assure you that you are right. It seems surprisingly cultish. I say “surprisingly” because I would never have imagined that LWers would attempt to ape religion and chain awe at the numinous to a specific set of rituals. I suppose in retrospect there is ample precedent, because certainly the Twelve Virtues and the litanies are pseudo-religious (presumably to lend them gravity), but… yipes!
There are parts of our brains that respond very strongly to ritual. As long as they’re still there, we might as well use them to impart knowledge that’s actually true. Also, if we can’t figure out how to supplant religious rituals with new rituals that provide the same social function but without the false beliefs attached, then people will always see a need for religion in their lives.
Edit: Kaj_Sotala wrote a comment expounding the second point above.
This is definitely a concern of mine.
The part where you read exerts from HP Lovecraft and the sequences makes my cult sensors go off like a foghorn. All of the rest of it seems perfectly beneign. It’s just the readings that make me think “CULT!” in the back of my mind. It seems like they’re being used as a replacement for a sacred text and being used to sermonize with. If it weren’t for that, this would seem much less cultish and more like a university graduation or a memorial or other secular-but-accepted-and-important ritual.
Its mostly based on intuition and pattern matching but to break it down as much as possible.
1) It seems like most movements of this very general type start collecting rituals at this stage.
2)My own personal introspection plus the feel of several recent conversations on LW meant that I (apparently correctly) felt that an event like this would gain widespread support if someone actually organized it.
In retrospect I should have put these down in prediction book awhile ago, but it slipped my mind.
My intention is to give people the tools to put together their own event or replicate mine.