The things being measured are different. To a first
approximation, all native speakers do maximally well at
sounding like a native speaker.
Lumifer’s
friend
may indeed speak like a native speaker (though it’s rare for
people who learned as adults to do so), but she cannot be
better at it than “most ‘natives’”.
Or maybe it means that high status and low status English have different difficulties, and native speakers tend to learn the one that their parents use (finding others harder) while L2 speakers learn to speak from a description of English which is actually a description of a particular high status accent (usually either Oxford or New England I think)
The “Standard American Accent” spoken in the media and generally taught to foriegners is the confusingly named “Midwestern” Accent, which due to internal migration and a subsequent vowel shift, is now mostly spoken in California and the Pacific Northwest.
Interestingly enough, my old Japanese instructor was a native Osakan, who’s natural dialect was Kansai-ben; despite this, she conducted the class using the standard, Tokyo Dialect.
I wonder if there’s an implication that colloquial language is more complex than high status language.
The things being measured are different. To a first approximation, all native speakers do maximally well at sounding like a native speaker.
Lumifer’s friend may indeed speak like a native speaker (though it’s rare for people who learned as adults to do so), but she cannot be better at it than “most ‘natives’”.
What she can be better at than most natives is:
Vocabulary.
Speaking a high-status dialect (e.g., avoiding third person singular “don’t”, double negatives, and “there’s” + plural).
Using complex sentence structures.
Avoiding disfluencies.
It is possible, though, for a lower-status dialect to be more complex than a higher-status one. Example: the Black English verb system.
Or maybe it means that high status and low status English have different difficulties, and native speakers tend to learn the one that their parents use (finding others harder) while L2 speakers learn to speak from a description of English which is actually a description of a particular high status accent (usually either Oxford or New England I think)
The “Standard American Accent” spoken in the media and generally taught to foriegners is the confusingly named “Midwestern” Accent, which due to internal migration and a subsequent vowel shift, is now mostly spoken in California and the Pacific Northwest.
Interestingly enough, my old Japanese instructor was a native Osakan, who’s natural dialect was Kansai-ben; despite this, she conducted the class using the standard, Tokyo Dialect.