So does this suppose that there is some “consciousness” variable in the laws of the universe? If consciousness causes me to think X, and thinking X can be traced back to a set of physical laws that govern the neurons in my brain, then there must be some consciousness variable somewhere in these physical laws, no? Otherwise it has to be that consciousness corresponds to some physical phenomenon, and it is that phenomenon—not the consciousness—that caused you to think about it. If there were no consciousness attached to that physical phenomenon, you would go along just the same way, thinking the exact same thing.
The argument doesn’t rule out substance dualism, in which consciousness may not be governed by physical laws, but in which it is at least causally connected to the physical processes of writing and talking and neural activity correlated with thinking about consciousness. It’s only an argument against epiphenomenalism and related hypotheses in which the behaviour or existence of consciousness has no causal influence on the physical universe.
I can think of two interpretations of consciousness being “causally connected” to physical systems:
1. consciousness is the result of physical phenomena like brain states, but it does not cause any. So it has an in-edge coming from the physical world, but not an out-edge to the physical world. Again, this implies that consciousness cannot be what causes me to think about consciousness.
2. consciousness causes things in the physical world. Which, again, I believe, necessitates a consciousness variable in the laws of the universe.
Note that I am not trying to get at what Eliezer was arguing, I am asking about the consequences of his arguments, even ones that he may not have intended.
So does this suppose that there is some “consciousness” variable in the laws of the universe? If consciousness causes me to think X, and thinking X can be traced back to a set of physical laws that govern the neurons in my brain, then there must be some consciousness variable somewhere in these physical laws, no? Otherwise it has to be that consciousness corresponds to some physical phenomenon, and it is that phenomenon—not the consciousness—that caused you to think about it. If there were no consciousness attached to that physical phenomenon, you would go along just the same way, thinking the exact same thing.
Almost.
The argument doesn’t rule out substance dualism, in which consciousness may not be governed by physical laws, but in which it is at least causally connected to the physical processes of writing and talking and neural activity correlated with thinking about consciousness. It’s only an argument against epiphenomenalism and related hypotheses in which the behaviour or existence of consciousness has no causal influence on the physical universe.
I can think of two interpretations of consciousness being “causally connected” to physical systems:
1. consciousness is the result of physical phenomena like brain states, but it does not cause any. So it has an in-edge coming from the physical world, but not an out-edge to the physical world. Again, this implies that consciousness cannot be what causes me to think about consciousness.
2. consciousness causes things in the physical world. Which, again, I believe, necessitates a consciousness variable in the laws of the universe.
Note that I am not trying to get at what Eliezer was arguing, I am asking about the consequences of his arguments, even ones that he may not have intended.
Yeah so I think Tomasik has written basically what I’m saying https://reducing-suffering.org/dissolving-confusion-about-consciousness/