With my daughter now being three (and more aware of holidays, etc.), my husband and I really need to determine our strategy for this Christmas.
Currently, I’m leaning towards: 1. not lying to my daughter, 2. and yet keeping silent if/when other people tell her about Santa, 3. using the Socratic method when she asks about Santa, and 4. encouraging her to respect others’ beliefs (not run around denouncing Santa yet, if, asked for her opinion, to be honest).
For instance, even if it caused no harm, I can’t justify lying to her when I want her to value honesty. Likewise, I find it conflicting to teach her to believe something false when I want her to value rationality.
One difficulty for me is, am I deluding myself by making a distinction between lying to her versus keeping silent when others lie to her? My thinking is that I will keep silent on Santa and that at some point she will notice this and question it and I will explain that I was giving her space to come to her own conclusions and exercise her own intellect.
Rings_of_Saturn: I appreciated your suggestion that there are lots of fantastic, amazing things to wonder at without having to use Santa. And Christmas can still be quite fun even if the kids know the parents are the ones putting the presents under the tree.
MBlume: “The girl believed in Santa because her mother said he was real, then disbelieved because her mother said he wasn’t. Of course she cried—she was powerless from beginning to end.” That is exactly why I don’t want to correct every irrational thing my daughter is told by other people—I want her to learn to think critically, not be a mini-me accepting whatever I say as ‘the truth’.
This wiki suggests tricking kids into believing in Santa: -”promotes a model of learning based on authority and accepting irrational concepts, discouraging healthy skepticism” -”teaches children that dishonesty at the expense of those who are gullible, like younger children, can be amusing and fun” -”that we should believe in ideas that are rewarding with the hopes that they are true, rather than believing in them for actually being true”
Thanks for catching that lessdazed—I didn’t realize I was falling into a potential trap. Assuming I understood you correctly, there is a huge difference between:
Considering whether to keep silent regarding beliefs she’s told that I feel are false
Considering whether to keep silent regarding all beliefs she’s told.
To only do 1. would be counterproductive given my stated goal to encourage independent thought in her. (By countering only beliefs I find false, she would just end up adopting my worldview.) And in the end, it may be best to be really careful about sharing any of my opinions with her, instead using the Socratic method to help her test hers.
Is this what you meant? (And I love your username especially as I would like to be less dazed.)
Yes, I didn’t want to use the term “Socratic Method” because for me it brings to mindasking your three year old if there is an ideal form of a chair that all chairs approximate or the like, it is qualitatively the Socratic Method.
“I believe in Santa.”
“Why?”
“Because all the kids in my class do and adults tell me about him and the kids who say he isn’t real want to be mean.”
“I see.”
One factor to consider is that all your daughter’s peers will believe in Santa, and it’s hard for a young kid to understand why all their friends’ parents think something different than their parents. I’d tell her presents come from Santa, and then when she asks tell her that Mom and Dad are Santa.
This is what my parents did, and I remember figuring out for myself that Santa didn’t exist was an exciting moment. Challenging Santa-belief requires you to notice confusion (why do poor kids not get good presents from Santa, when they need them more? how does Santa get to all those houses in one night?), come up with a better alternative, and figure out whether your alternative is right (which I did by asking “Mommy, are you and Daddy Santa?”), all while ignoring conformity pressures.. That’s an incredibly valuable lesson,and I don’t know anyone who felt lied to by their parents when they figured it out.
I’m not convinced that I’d need to lie to her to meet your concerns. I.e., If I go forward with keeping silent, I expect she will still be exposed to Santa from daycare staff, other kids, my parents, etc. and will most likely believe in Santa and so the conflict of her beliefs being different from others wouldn’t be until she questioned me about it and by that time she would hopefully be mature enough to understand how to respect others beliefs. (and she would still get to notice confusion, etc. as well)
However, without me lying to her, she would most likely come to that conclusion sooner than her peers and so that’s still something to consider. However, if everyone will encounter beliefs that differ from their own, doesn’t it make sense to plan with the end in mind and prepare her from the start rather than base my decision on the convenience and conventions of other people? Perhaps I am being too black and white in my beliefs and am also not taking into account what is possible for a 3 or 4 year old to learn.
I think the strategy you currently outlined makes sense, and it certainly wasn’t my intent to convince you to lie to her. I think figuring out Santa for yourself does provide good lessons, but your method seems to be a good third alternative.
With my daughter now being three (and more aware of holidays, etc.), my husband and I really need to determine our strategy for this Christmas.
Currently, I’m leaning towards: 1. not lying to my daughter, 2. and yet keeping silent if/when other people tell her about Santa, 3. using the Socratic method when she asks about Santa, and 4. encouraging her to respect others’ beliefs (not run around denouncing Santa yet, if, asked for her opinion, to be honest).
For instance, even if it caused no harm, I can’t justify lying to her when I want her to value honesty. Likewise, I find it conflicting to teach her to believe something false when I want her to value rationality.
One difficulty for me is, am I deluding myself by making a distinction between lying to her versus keeping silent when others lie to her? My thinking is that I will keep silent on Santa and that at some point she will notice this and question it and I will explain that I was giving her space to come to her own conclusions and exercise her own intellect.
Rings_of_Saturn: I appreciated your suggestion that there are lots of fantastic, amazing things to wonder at without having to use Santa. And Christmas can still be quite fun even if the kids know the parents are the ones putting the presents under the tree.
MBlume: “The girl believed in Santa because her mother said he was real, then disbelieved because her mother said he wasn’t. Of course she cried—she was powerless from beginning to end.” That is exactly why I don’t want to correct every irrational thing my daughter is told by other people—I want her to learn to think critically, not be a mini-me accepting whatever I say as ‘the truth’.
Here’s a debatepedia link: Debate: Should parents trick their kids to believe in Santa Claus?
This wiki suggests tricking kids into believing in Santa:
-”promotes a model of learning based on authority and accepting irrational concepts, discouraging healthy skepticism”
-”teaches children that dishonesty at the expense of those who are gullible, like younger children, can be amusing and fun”
-”that we should believe in ideas that are rewarding with the hopes that they are true, rather than believing in them for actually being true”
Of course, for something completely different regardless of what you do about Santa, you could introduce her to an alternative mythos and its culture.
Funny stuff lessdazed. I’m all for exposing her to different cultures but that one might have to wait until she’s much older. ;-)
Can you make the subject what it is reasonable for her to believe based on what everyone is telling her, rather than what is true?
Thanks for catching that lessdazed—I didn’t realize I was falling into a potential trap. Assuming I understood you correctly, there is a huge difference between:
Considering whether to keep silent regarding beliefs she’s told that I feel are false
Considering whether to keep silent regarding all beliefs she’s told.
To only do 1. would be counterproductive given my stated goal to encourage independent thought in her. (By countering only beliefs I find false, she would just end up adopting my worldview.) And in the end, it may be best to be really careful about sharing any of my opinions with her, instead using the Socratic method to help her test hers.
Is this what you meant? (And I love your username especially as I would like to be less dazed.)
Yes, I didn’t want to use the term “Socratic Method” because for me it brings to mindasking your three year old if there is an ideal form of a chair that all chairs approximate or the like, it is qualitatively the Socratic Method.
“I believe in Santa.” “Why?” “Because all the kids in my class do and adults tell me about him and the kids who say he isn’t real want to be mean.” “I see.”
Thank you about the name comment.
One factor to consider is that all your daughter’s peers will believe in Santa, and it’s hard for a young kid to understand why all their friends’ parents think something different than their parents. I’d tell her presents come from Santa, and then when she asks tell her that Mom and Dad are Santa.
This is what my parents did, and I remember figuring out for myself that Santa didn’t exist was an exciting moment. Challenging Santa-belief requires you to notice confusion (why do poor kids not get good presents from Santa, when they need them more? how does Santa get to all those houses in one night?), come up with a better alternative, and figure out whether your alternative is right (which I did by asking “Mommy, are you and Daddy Santa?”), all while ignoring conformity pressures.. That’s an incredibly valuable lesson,and I don’t know anyone who felt lied to by their parents when they figured it out.
Thanks KPier—I appreciate your comment.
I’m not convinced that I’d need to lie to her to meet your concerns. I.e., If I go forward with keeping silent, I expect she will still be exposed to Santa from daycare staff, other kids, my parents, etc. and will most likely believe in Santa and so the conflict of her beliefs being different from others wouldn’t be until she questioned me about it and by that time she would hopefully be mature enough to understand how to respect others beliefs. (and she would still get to notice confusion, etc. as well)
However, without me lying to her, she would most likely come to that conclusion sooner than her peers and so that’s still something to consider. However, if everyone will encounter beliefs that differ from their own, doesn’t it make sense to plan with the end in mind and prepare her from the start rather than base my decision on the convenience and conventions of other people? Perhaps I am being too black and white in my beliefs and am also not taking into account what is possible for a 3 or 4 year old to learn.
I think the strategy you currently outlined makes sense, and it certainly wasn’t my intent to convince you to lie to her. I think figuring out Santa for yourself does provide good lessons, but your method seems to be a good third alternative.